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Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Mar 28 8:52 am)



Subject: Tickets! Get yer tickets here!


EClark1894 ( ) posted Mon, 18 May 2015 at 11:17 PM · edited Fri, 23 February 2024 at 10:11 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Okay, so I'm creating this ticket booth I still have a little more work to do on the details, but here's the thing. I want to try and do a night scene with this booth and Roxie on the inside.  The bulbs work fine for what i want, but they give off very little actual light. I even put a cylinder under the roof overhang to give more light, but that toois giving off very little light. Finally I put the environment sphere in the scene and now i can see everything, but it doesn't look like night. I need some help to figure this one out.

file_5fd0b37cd7dbbb00f97ba6ce92bf5add.pn




EClark1894 ( ) posted Mon, 18 May 2015 at 11:29 PM

BTW, this is what it looks like with out the environment sphere.file_0336dcbab05b9d5ad24f4333c7658a0e.pn




EClark1894 ( ) posted Mon, 18 May 2015 at 11:45 PM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:49 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Better, I think. I put in a square and I'm suing it to light the scene instead of the environment sphere. I have to get up and go to work in three hours, som I'm done for the night.file_0aa1883c6411f7873cb83dacb17b0afc.pn




piersyf ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 1:09 AM

You've said nothing about how you are lighting this. Until you decide whether it is using an environment sphere or not, whether IDL or not, whether poser lights or mesh or not, it is impossible to answer your question.

Check this image: http://www.bandwmag.com/galleries/color/contests/9/categories/4/photographs/18783

Notice that the lights around the sign are only to attract attention, the sign itself is illuminated (badly). The inside of the booth is lit.

Your bulbs... have you set ambient on the bulb then made it transparent? Transparency will reduce the light it gives off. Notice in the image that the bulbs glow, but DO NOT appear transparent. Coloured globes aren't transparent even when they're off. If you want it to look like real life, it helps to look at the real objects.

Please explain how you have set up your lighting...


EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 5:49 AM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:49 AM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Hey, Piersyf, Thanks for the response. That picture actually helped me a bit. And last night I was half asleep. So let me see if i can explain this better. This is a ticket booth for an amusement park. Yeah, that's Roxie inside the booth. The bulbs were made with a filament inside each one. Ambient is set to 10, color white. I wanted that little hot white glow you see in bulbs like that on a midway.

The bulbs are semitransparent, color red, and ambient set to 5. I was using IDL to light the scene, so I used the environmment sphere, but that was too much. I deleted the sphere in the second render and you can see how that turned out.  In the third render I put in a Square  to light the scene, and a cylinder to light the inside of the booth.

When I saw the picture you linked to I deleted the mesh lights and put a point light in the booth with Roxie. That works for me, but I still need to find a way to light that sign better. Plus I'm getting all kinds of light artifacgts at the base of the booth.file_38b3eff8baf56627478ec76a704e9b52.pn




pumeco ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:10 AM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:12 AM

Clarkie, missed you man!

Looks great, I think it would look better if the bulbs were of various colours though, rather than all the same colour :-)

And some nice airbrush art on the front of the booth, and I think I'd illuminate the scene itself using red and green tinted lights placed carefully to give it a sort of sumptuous creepy fairground feel.


piersyf ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:14 AM

Notice in the image I linked that the 'ticket' sign is, itself, backlit. Connect your text image to the translucence slot and play with that. Maybe start at 0.5.

If you want an old style booth with no plastic signage, they come in 2 forms that I could see; daylight only ones like yours, and night ones which have separate flood lights attached to the top angled back onto the sign. Google 'ticket booth' and you'll see.

I think the bulb glass needs to be less transparent. Not completely opaque, just a touch less. Just a personal preference.

The render artifacts will go when the scene is properly lit in an environment.


seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:25 AM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:32 AM

     Try duplicating the mesh of the light bulb array in your modeler.  Select the new mesh object ("emitter");  switch to polygon mode and select all polys.  Use local scale to grow the new mesh so that it overlays/contains the original bulb mesh, like nested Russian matroishka dolls.  If you can't find your modeler's equivalent command, then select the emitter object and use shell, then delete the original emitter polys, leaving only the outer shell.

     Anyway, you want nested shells, with an emitter encasing each light bulb.

file_5fd0b37cd7dbbb00f97ba6ce92bf5add.pn.

     Notice that I soft-selected the screw-in base part of the emitter, and nudged it to nearly meet the light bulb's base.  This is to avoid having the emitter poke through your wall.  I would recommend that you select the threaded base portion of the emitter mesh and delete those polys, to avoid intense hotspots on the sign/wall.

     Import the emitter array, parent it to the light bulb array (or the stand, if one mesh), and set the emitter's properties to not cast shadows and not be visible in camera.  In the material room, use a color appropriate, but not overly saturated, and give it hyper-ambience, maybe 30?  By the way, you're now free to make the visible light bulbs semi-transparent if you like.

     If you want a faint glowy aura around the bulbs, make a third mesh "aura", with bulb diameter exaggerated so they nearly touch.  The visible effect in a render will only extend to about half the diameter of the mesh. 

     If you have problems, just post, or if it goes totally pear-shaped, send me the mesh and I'll set it up, then you can reverse-engineer for future projects.

     P.S.  I can make the lights blink chaser fashion, multicolor if you want.

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RedPhantom ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:30 AM
Forum Moderator

With bb's sphere, you need to put a picture on it or it will always be too bright. You can even change the value in the hsv node under gamma out to change a day image to a night one.

For your lights, to get proper brightness, you may need to jack up the ambient value quite high. A lot of people will use a 2nd mesh to simulate the light and have it invisible to the camera to the light bulbs don't get too washed out.

The artifacts maybe caused be the booth walls having no thickness. There was a thread here not too long ago about this. (by not too long ago, I mean since pp2014 came out but I think with in the last year) I think your floor is a good thickness.

It may also be caused by having the Irradiance caching set too low or or the idl quality set too high.

You could also light the letters in the sign. Use a mask on the ambient value if the letters are just part of the texture.


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seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:38 AM

     Hah!  Cross-posting with RedPhantom!  :D  Expanding on her idea for the sign itself, you can use two simple rectangle polys, one the visible sign, and another slightly spaced away, which will be the unseen emitter.  This method was used for the Palace Theatre sign...

PalaceTheatre2014-IDLtest1200x750.jpg~or.

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5


EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 7:33 AM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 7:36 AM

Thanks, guys. At work right now, so I'll have to try your methods when I get home later today.

Pumeco, I still lurk and read, I just post a lot less here. 

 

BTW, thanks to the mod who put up the nudity warnings. As I said, I was half asleep when I posted. 




ghostship2 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 7:44 AM
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Also helps to use a night shot for your sphere file_73278a4a86960eeb576a8fd4c9ec6997.jp

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ThunderStone ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 9:59 AM

Thanks for sharing the nite scene. I could use that!


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EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:04 AM

Also helps to use a night shot for your sphere file_73278a4a86960eeb576a8fd4c9ec6997.jp

Ghostship, where did you get the night scene for the sphere?




ghostship2 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:07 AM
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You are welcome!

One thing I do with these after downloading them from the net is blow them up in Photoshop and blur them a bit. This will get rid of most of the jaggies and JPG artifacts in the sky in your final render. It also helps with separating the background from the figures.

Brian

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ghostship2 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:10 AM
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Probably got the pic from a web search for 360 panoramas. There is a special name for these that I have forgotten. You might also check out BB's web page as he had some links to images like this one. One thing about it is that the image may not be downloadable in which case you just do a screen grab.

Brian

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-Timberwolf- ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:17 AM

BTW, does any body know free tools to convert jpgs into a HDRImage?


seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:28 AM

     Try searching equirectangular.

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Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5


EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:43 AM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 10:47 AM

Next question, what's the practice for distributing images from online. I admit it 's better to make your own if you can or know how, but if you don't...?

I'm still at work, so I can't really do anything  to check on the previous methods suggested, plus I've already made some changes to the mesh. I was going to try making the sign a light emitter, but Seachnaisagh and RedPhantom might be onto something. I'll try that tonight.




heddheld ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 11:04 AM

 @Clarkie you need to check the licence from the site mate! free to use isn't the same as free to share, is lots of free ones 100's of buy ones they come in different "flavours"  for different uses ~ equirectangular, mirrorball even panoramas can be used with the right hemisphere file types can be hdri (the best but HUGE files some of mine are over 300 meg) jpgs tend to be lower quality but often fine for poser (depends what you want them for )

@timberwolf jpgs arnt the best way to make them ;-) there used to be free software to make them but I think it went paid is many ways now to make such things, used to need a good camera and a firm tripod and a lot of skill now some of the smartphones are good enough

 try this link for more info  http://adaptivesamples.com/2013/11/17/how-to-create-your-own-hdr-environment-images/

 

 

 


EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 12:19 PM

@hedd, thanks for the advice. Think I'm going to have to find one to buy, because making them is not going to be an option anytime soon.




EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 12:26 PM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 12:28 PM

BTW, I went home for lunch and did a little more on  the mesh. Then exported into Poser. I put some clothes on Roxie cause she was getting cold,  then rendered. Unfortunately , I had to leave so I didn't see how that turned out. I did screw something up though on the sign, so I already know I have to go back and fix that.

 Also, does anyone know if funnel cakes are a brand of cakes, or just the method of cooking them? 




heddheld ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 12:34 PM

if its just for lighting you don't need anything too complicated I have some "studio" ones that are only white squares on a black (ish) B/G (act like a softbox in a photostudio)

should be able to paint one in blender then at least you know its yours and unique  and more importantly no come back from anyone


RedPhantom ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 12:52 PM
Forum Moderator

funnel cakes are a type of cake (like pancakes or fruit cakes) It's mostly about the method of cooking it, pouring batter through a funnel into hot grease.


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seachnasaigh ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 12:59 PM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 1:02 PM

     I've got some big evening and night panoramas generated in Vue you could use.

     Funnel cake is a generic term, common here in flyover country.  Not a trademark term.  edit:  Cross-posted RedPhantom again!

[quote EClark]  " I was going to try making the sign a light emitter, but Seachnaisagh and RedPhantom might be onto something."  [/quote]

     Yes, we're on to something.  Relying on the visible sign and bulbs to emit light isn't going to work.  The proportion of response of IDL isn't suited to intense active light sources such as light bulbs.  Using unseen emitters will work.  Look at the render of the Palace Theatre;  There are no Poser lights on in that scene.  It's all IDL.  Oh, and the text crawler signs work, automagically!  :D

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EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 1:15 PM

     I've got some big evening and night panoramas generated in Vue you could use.

     Funnel cake is a generic term, common here in flyover country.  Not a trademark term.  edit:  Cross-posted RedPhantom again!

[quote EClark]  " I was going to try making the sign a light emitter, but Seachnaisagh and RedPhantom might be onto something."  [/quote]

     Yes, we're on to something.  Relying on the visible sign and bulbs to emit light isn't going to work.  The proportion of response of IDL isn't suited to intense active light sources such as light bulbs.  Using unseen emitters will work.  Look at the render of the Palace Theatre;  There are no Poser lights on in that scene.  It's all IDL.  Oh, and the text crawler signs work, automagically!  :D

I'm working with some unknowns here. I have to try and set up either the same or similar scene in Studio as much as possible, so I really don't want to rely on Poser only tricks to light the scene.  And in case you're wondering about the funnel cakes question, I was over at Hivewire and 3WComics released an arcade pack of 80's video games. I thought it was cool, but needed a pinball and skeeball game, so I started doing that.  Anyway, I decided to go whole hog and create an amusement park midway scene. I'm creating three different types of booths right now, the ticket booth, the game booth, and the food vendor booth. I'm also doing some rides, but I'll have to get to that later. Anyway, I know I can use terms like Ice Cream, Hot Dogs, and Cotton Candy, but wasn't sure about Funnel Cakes on the signs.




EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 5:45 PM

Hey, what size should the panorama be to fit the e-sphere?




bagginsbill ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:19 PM · edited Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:20 PM

For lighting? at least 512x256

For reflections? at least 2048x1024

For looking at directly as a background? at least 8192x4096

Note: Decimal sizes are OK - you waste a teeny amount of unused space. I.e. 2000x1000, or 8000x4000


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EClark1894 ( ) posted Tue, 19 May 2015 at 6:57 PM

Thanks, BB. Here's another try.

file_2b24d495052a8ce66358eb576b8912c8.pn




EClark1894 ( ) posted Wed, 20 May 2015 at 4:47 AM

This booth is driving me bonkers. If it isn't the lighting it's something wrong structurally. There's supposed to be a door in the back of the booth, but it's not coming out right. I think I'm going to just get rid of it. It wasn't going to actually work anyway, I haven't learned how to do that yet, and I can always just texture it in. Moving on to the Ferris Wheel anf the problems with lighting that sucker.

file_a97da629b098b75c294dffdc3e463904.pn




EClark1894 ( ) posted Thu, 21 May 2015 at 11:53 AM

I don't know, seems like something's missing...file_7f6ffaa6bb0b408017b62254211691b5.pn




EClark1894 ( ) posted Fri, 22 May 2015 at 1:36 PM

Moving on to the roller coaster... I think. Yeah, i know this isn't perfect, but I want to get the basic shapes and structures down on the main structures first. Then later I can come back and improve them. In fact, I already know I'm going to rebuild the ferris wheel pretty much from the ground up. But at least now I know better what works and wha doesn't.

file_3def184ad8f4755ff269862ea77393dd.pn




ghostship2 ( ) posted Fri, 22 May 2015 at 2:05 PM
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thats looking great!

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pumeco ( ) posted Fri, 22 May 2015 at 2:12 PM

Yup, looks ok, I especially like the idea of the booth cause there's a lot of potential fun to be had with that.  I don't like that it has lightbulbs all one colour though, I think it would look better in a colour sequence, pretty much any colour sequence that repeats as it goes around the sign.  Even if it's just two colours I think even that would be better than just the one.


EClark1894 ( ) posted Fri, 22 May 2015 at 3:06 PM

I'll take that into consideration, Pumeco. It just a simple matter of changing the mat zones on the light bulbs. One of the things I'm trying to do is to make each piece seperately so they can be animated. So the wheels on the roller coaster will turn, as will the ferris wheel.




EClark1894 ( ) posted Sat, 23 May 2015 at 8:07 PM

Content Advisory! This message contains nudity

Working on the roller coaster now.file_140f6969d5213fd0ece03148e62e461e.pn

And putting in a safety bar. Safety first!

file_c9e1074f5b3f9fc8ea15d152add07294.pn




heddheld ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 3:33 AM

think making the wheels turn on the roller coaster will be wasting your time .... its a detail no one will see ;-) well except the engineer who does safety checks lol


EClark1894 ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 5:52 AM · edited Sun, 24 May 2015 at 5:55 AM

You're probably right, and anyone who's making the animation probably isn't going to want to turn 24 wheels per car. The tracks are going to be gthe big headache. I know I can use an array modifier in Blender and a curve modifier. But I'm trying to find out how to make the tracks follow a bezier curve path in Blender.




pumeco ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 7:39 AM

Wow, looks nice Clarkie, this is definitely more enjoyable to watch than the clothes suff, I just hope you keep it up ;-)


heddheld ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 7:54 AM

 lol nothing to do with your project ;-)
but we have a BIG funfair comes here every year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_Fair
[honest I been for the last 40+ outta 60+ yrs {didnt always live here rofl} got photos going back the the late 40's]
often started to model it ........one ride at a time
BUT if you model every ride in all detail (nuts bolts even wheels) you will crash your comp ;-)

if you then "factor in" most poser[Ds] users want to put a person in centre frame :-(
the best idea I came up with is a lowish poly "everything" for background
and one "car" with more detail for the close ups of someone screaming
bear in mind I had NO intentions of selling(giving away) such a thing

dunno how other users feel but anything outside my cam view is wasted cpu cycles/ram etc

hope thats usefull ideas and hope you share yours ......... I'm not always right despite what my "X" says ;-)

 

 

 


heddheld ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 8:05 AM

opps forgot    after adding array then add curve ROTATE it 90 in x apply rotation then set its first point to origin, set curve in array THEN add curve modifier it "should"  work sometimes need to mess with deformation axis (but that's if you missed a set rotations somewhere else ) 

hope that helps  


pumeco ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 9:42 AM

@Heddheld
Haven't been there for years, but I remember seeing George the Gentle Giant ;-)

@Clarkie
Funny you should mention curves, I was watching a video just yesterday about a brand new curve tool for Blender.
Just tried to find it again but can't remember what it was called, I'll look again later and post it if I find it.


EClark1894 ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 10:39 AM

BUT if you model every ride in all detail (nuts bolts even wheels) you will crash your comp ;-)

if you then "factor in" most poser[Ds] users want to put a person in centre frame :-(
the best idea I came up with is a lowish poly "everything" for background
and one "car" with more detail for the close ups of someone screaming
bear in mind I had NO intentions of selling(giving away) such a thing

dunno how other users feel but anything outside my cam view is wasted cpu cycles/ram etc

hope thats usefull ideas and hope you share yours ......... I'm not always right despite what my "X" says ;-)

A lot of the little details are actually seperate, so in the end if the poly count gets too high I can just leave them out. Or go back and delete them easily. Others I can probably just texture in, like the rivets on a support tower. And the full structure will probably only be really useful in distance shots anyway, but my plan is to break it up into several sections like you see in this screen shot of  Roxie in a car.
file_f2217062e9a397a1dca429e7d70bc6ca.pn




heddheld ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 11:03 AM

lol if you saw georgie grace then you maybe paid me the sixpence to go on speedway ;-)

my nan had a shop in bean street he'd have 1/2 dozen bread cakes every day the fair was here, mind u they was the best right out the oven with a bit of butter lol  


pumeco ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 1:30 PM

@Clarkie
Sorry, I can't find that video, which is a shame because it's just what you're looking for, but what Heddheld said about arrays on a curve modifier, I reckon that would be the way to go for a coaster track, and there's tons of Blender tutorial videos on that so you'll be spoilt for choice.

@Heddheld
Ah, so you're the guy who sapped-up all my pocket money at record speed.  Just Googled the name, and yup, that's him alright, bloody huge he was, and I was only a kid at the time he shook my hand.

To a grown-up he's huge, but to a kid ... lol ... you can imagine he's like twice to three times that size again :-D

georgegracie.jpg


seachnasaigh ( ) posted Sun, 24 May 2015 at 4:35 PM

     You could gang wheels which are coaxial, but I think it easier for the end user if you map the wheels such that a "spinning" animated texture can be applied.

Poser 12, in feet.  

OSes:  Win7Prox64, Win7Ultx64

Silo Pro 2.5.6 64bit, Vue Infinite 2014.7, Genetica 4.0 Studio, UV Mapper Pro, UV Layout Pro, PhotoImpact X3, GIF Animator 5


EClark1894 ( ) posted Wed, 24 June 2015 at 8:35 PM

Popcorn! Get yer fresh popcorn!

file_6cdd60ea0045eb7a6ec44c54d29ed402.pn




pumeco ( ) posted Fri, 26 June 2015 at 4:08 AM

Looking good, Clarkie, the stye looks very 'Funfair'.
And nice work on the popcorns themselves, lol, you got a good generalised representative shape!


EClark1894 ( ) posted Fri, 26 June 2015 at 7:56 AM

Yeah, subd-ed a cube and took it into Blender with a sculpt brush.




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