Forum Coordinators: RedPhantom
Poser - OFFICIAL F.A.Q (Last Updated: 2024 Sep 07 9:50 am)
eye whites a tiny bit darker. sorry. I think they are still a bit bright overall -- should lean more into a yellow grey tone than a white one.
thou and I, my friend, can, in the most flunkey world, make, each of us, one non-flunkey, one hero, if we like: that will be two heroes to begin with. (Carlyle)
olaf....
Image on the right is much much better. If you are going for super realism, you need to get the contrast between skin, eyes and teeth right. The following tone comparisions are for skin/eyewhite/teeth WITHOUT specular - but in a bright area.
From the studies I've done, if the figures cheecks are RGB (255, 175, 130) - ie. redder and brighter than in your image - then eyewhites would be around....210, 180, 165. So in your render, her eyewhites they are perhaps a little blue and a little too bright. Angelina Jolie is about the only reference model I've seen who has white eyewhites (ie. r=g=b) - almost everyone else has (r > g > b). Your render has (r < g < b).
So back on-topic - to her teeth. From a bunch of reference shoots, it seems that teeth are a relative color to a persons eyewhites - which approximately an RGB of approximately to the following formula (teeth R = eyewhite red + (0 to 20), teeth G = eyewhite R - 20, teeth B = eyewhite R - 30). Abviously peoples teeth vary depending on yellowness, lighting, if they are a smoker, etc. But your average hollywood superstar seems to conform to these figures.
So, back to your render - in you render, her eyewhites are around 230, 240, 250 (near the lacrimal), so matching teeth would be about 240, 220, 210 - and your are approx 210, 195, 165 - so the right color, but a little dark. But to me, the diffuse power of her eyewhites should be reduced to match her current teeth, and tinted red.
[rereads msg] Mmmmmm, that all sounds a bit complex, but hopefully will make sense. PS - you need to throw a bump map on the teeth to get the reflections right.
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I've been puzzling over how to get teeth to look like something other than a row of peppermints or badly made dentures. They don't really want any AO because that gives grey-black shadows which you never see on real teeth. Shadows between teeth (if present at all) are lust slightly darker tooth-colour. They also vary in colour from yellower at the gum (where they are thicker) to more blue-ish at the tips where they are much more translucent. I reckon they need a bit of translucence, sss or something, but not enough to make them 'glow in the dark' further back in the mouth. Maybe some sort of translucence map/mask? Gums too, can sometimes be surprisingly pale where they meet the tooth (I guess from being stretched quite thin over a light-filled white thing).
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Paul, I've tried anisotropic in the alternate specular, but couldn't really control it well. For one thing, it didn't react to bumps. So I went back to the regular specular, but of course, I can always increase the highlight size. I've actually plugged (1-texturemap) into the ambient because the texture tends to be darker towards the edges of the teeth. I could try and boost up the intensity a little. The teeth bump here is just an fBM node. I'm sure I could to better, but where would I start looking for a good tooth bump?
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Olaf...a number of ppl have said how hard it is to control the anisotopic, but I think that's because it needs the right bump to work properly. Once you've got a good strong bump on the teeth, the anisotopic settles down really nicely. I don't think fbm is good enough - you need to make an actual map up. For the above teeth, I put together a bumpmap in photoshop - was very easy - I'd post an example, but it's in a package, so that would be a no-no. Bump was set at 0.02 (inches), and Anisotopic color was (30, 30, 30), value 1, highlight size 0.05. Good idea plugging 1-texturemap into ambient! Gets around the texturing problem. Teeth texturemaps really shouldn't have an shadowing built into them - it's up to the renderer to do that.
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I suck at doing texture maps, but I guess I'll give it a try. Get the visual: Olaf trying to rub his teeth really dry, then light from the side and take a photo to help him understand the structure. Or else, standing in front of a mirror for hours wiggeling his head and trying to memorize.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Well if you get the package (it's The Real Jessi), you will look at the teeth bumpmap and think "that's it? I could have done THAT!". Run you tongue over the front of your teeth - feel the vertical humps - that's all that needs to be on the bump.
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I think the teeth look almost perfect in post #9. It looks like she has lipstick on, so I'm just wondering if her lips shouldn't have more of a glossy sheen to them mayabe? That's really a great render though, and the skin looks very good. I wish there was a way to make hair more realistic in poser... I mean without the help of photoshop. Dynamic hair seems to look really good in some renders, but I can't do anything with it myself. Takes too long to render, and I have no idea yet how to make the strands look good.
Well if you get the package (it's The Real Jessi), you will look at the teeth bumpmap and think "that's it? I could have done THAT!". Run you tongue over the front of your teeth - feel the vertical humps - that's all that needs to be on the bump. Paul, you're really not up to the state of the art in advertising, are you? :-) Relax, I was thinking about getting the package anyway, because I think you can never have too many Morris textures. The teeth bumpmaps would have only been a bonus. Anyway, when I run my tongue over my teeth, they feel perfectly smooth. Maybe I should get an upgrade for my tongue. Fingers work better for me, or, as I said, inspecting my teeth closely in the mirror. It looks like she has lipstick on, so I'm just wondering if her lips shouldn't have more of a glossy sheen to them mayabe? Yes, I thought about that too. As Jessi has no extra lips material, it would have required either creating one or else masking the lips with an appropriate bit map. So far, I was just too lazy to do that, but maybe I'll try now.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
Attached Link: http://www.renderosity.com/freestuff.ez?Form.Contrib=JohnRickardJR&Topsectionid=0
JohnRickardJR has some lip masks for Jessi in the FreeStuff, see attached link.(Jim Burton added a lip material to Glamourous Jessi).
This is again a piece of the unpostworked render. The full image with some mild postwork can be seen in my gallery. I've decided to give the subject a rest because and some point it gets boring to keep fiddling with tiny details in the same old image. But that doesn't mean that I'm not open for further suggestions and experiments. Only that I'm now quite happy with the teeth and will reserve further insights for use in other work.
Thanks for all the input so far.
-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.
No only does it get boring Olaf, I think after a while working on the same thing, you start to loose your eye for realism. Always a good idea to leave it for a while and come back to it later.
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I had this embarrassing experience again of posting something to the galleries that on hindsight did not seem quite ready. Well, I guess that's what viewer comments are for, and many commented on the teeth in my image "Stop...". I've tried some more things and I think both the eyes and teeth are better now. What do you think? Original render (without the postwork) on the left, new versio on the right. The most important change here is that I added some ambient light with the inverted teeth texture plugged into the color channel. Diffuse is tinted slightly yellowish while ambient is tinted slightly blueish. I also changed the eye from anisotropic to regular specular and a few other small things. I think I still need to make the teeth a bit brighter and the eye whites a tiny bit darker.-- I'm not mad at you, just Westphalian.