I've been using Poser for some time now (I think I started with Poser 7).  Poser 11 Pro suddenly stopped working for me.  It would load, and then when it was loading my libraries, it immediately crashed and I could not use it.  I also could not re-install Poser 11 Pro since Renderostity no longer provides downloads of support for Poser 11 Pro.

So ... I bit the bullet and bought Poser 13.  Poser 13 seems more stable than Poser 11 Pro, which periodically crashed when I clicked on the Materials tab.  That bug seems to have been fixed with Poser 13.  That's a nice improvement.

However, the most frustrating part of Poser 13 is that none of the programs that use a compiled Python script work with Poser 13.   For example, D3D Perfect Tan Line program no longer works.  Nor does Semi Duex's Advanced Shaders program work with Poser 13, which disaables some of the excellent "second skin" like programs from Lululee, Darkworld and Vyktohria.

I can't understand why new versions of Poser are not developed that are compatible with older Python scripts.   How hard would it be to update Poser with software that can execute older Python scripts?   

It's because the older version of Python has been officially retired and is no longer supported.  Now, if you still have your registration serial number for Poser 11 Pro, you can still upgrade to the current version of Poser 11.  This is the link: https://www.posersoftware.com/.  I have Poser 11, 12, and 13 installed on my rig, and Poser 11 is the updated version from SmithMicro's app.  A lot of users complained about the changeover but have since moved on.  If you can manage to update your Poser 11, keep it installed for the Python 2 script compatibility.  That's what I'm doing.

Rendo has had the downloads available for Poser 11 since they bought it. https://www.posersoftware.com/downloads/11

I have it installed to this day to use the older scripts to make and test content in it. 

And just so you know, the current version of Python in Poser 13 has been retired as well. There is not much Poser can do about that either. Python support is usually only 3 years per build.

I'd like to keep Poser 11 to run the old Python scripts.  I downloaded the current version of Poser 11, but it still crashes and closes when launch it.  Any suggestions?

Try a clean uninstall of Poser 11. Follow these instructions:

https://support.posersoftware.com/kb/faq.php?id=3

"Try a clean uninstall of Poser 11. Follow these instructions:

https://support.posersoftware.com/kb/faq.php?id=3"

I've done a clean install a couple of times, but the problem persists. Poser 11 crashes when it opens. It looks like the crash happens when it tries to load the content library. I've removed the libraries so that there is nothing left of the Poser 11 files, but it still crashes. I have an open trouble ticket on this.

These sorts of problems should not exist with Poser. It's an expensive program, but not supporting Python scripts and re-installation that requires a degree in computer science is not what users should experience. I suspect the "buggy" nature of Poser is one of the reasons customers -- the people who pay Rendo -- are migrating to DAZ rather than staying with Poser. grrrr!

So, the Poser support people responded to my inability to get Poser 11 to work in spite of clean installs with the following:

"Poser's library window is really just an embedded Chromium web browser. If the library window is crashing it would only take out Chromium and not crash Poser it's self. That situation can cause a blank library window.

If you've removed all the preferences, included base content and reinstalled that leaves us with something in Windows has got messed up and is preventing Poser from running. Sometimes Windows tries to be helpful and changes registry settings for Poser that it really shouldn't. 

If you don't know exactly what you're doing don't mess with the registry. You can easily break Windows. If you're not 100% comfortable in RegEdit use a commercial registry cleaner. Backup everything before you try any of this. You don't need to uninstall poser to try the registry fixes.

Registry entries on Windows that may cause problems:

Background Activity Moderator (BAM). Seems to cause Poser to run as only an idle task. Cause massive performance hit. Search the following key for instances of Poser, FFrender and Queue executable. Delete all references. This will grow back. There's no way to stop Windows from helping.

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\bam\State\UserSettings\S-1-5-21-3029514950-4203302119-1443304429-1001

Fault Tolerant Heap (FTH). Seems to get triggered after a crash. Causes very slow performance. Search for Poser executables in this key:

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\AppCompatFlags\Layers

You can stop Windows from ever doing this again (and probably should). FTH can be disabled in this key:

Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\FTH\Enabled

Set enabled key to 0 (zero)"

Can anyone help me decipher this?  I'm really nervous about messing with the Windows registry.

When you start regedit: each time it will restart from where it was closed. But if you close anything in the left pane, it looks like this:

Each time, windows will ask you to confirm that you want to start "in administrator mode" (something like that, Windows calls this differently)
If I consider this thing:
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\bam\State\UserSettings\S-1-5-21-3029514950-4203302119-1443304429-1001

- If shows a path that you explore in the left pane - "Computer" is "Ordinateur" in my case, as it's in French - Each part is separated by the next using the back slash - Open each part by clicking on ">"

So this: "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services" corresponds to this:

Searching down for the "bam" entry, it looks like this:

Once a selection is done, you may export it before deleting it. If you're afraid to delete something: Right-Click is your friend.

Modifying the Windows registry is way above my head and I don't want to risk disabling my PC just to try and track down Poser 11  bugs.

This morning with fresh eyes, I waded through all my directories (hidden and non-hidden) for Poser 11 references and content and deleted it all.  I re-installed Poser 11 and IT WORKED!!!!

Poser changed because Python changed so it really had little choice, I lost the use of a load of scripts when using Poser 12 and 13 but now there are some stunning scripts from Ken 1171_ Designs that I use that makes life so much easier, so it really is a case of swings and roundabouts.   I have lost count of the number of Poser uninstalls and re-installs I have done thanks to the numerous program updates, and for the last four years or more the uninstall and re-install process has worked for me without a hitch. 

For quite a few years now I think Poser and Daz have ceased to compete with each other because they do what they do in very different ways and their marketing strategy has always been very different.  I have been using Poser for over twenty years now having moved from Daz and, with the exception that I lost some very skilled vendors I supported when they moved away, I have few regrets.  Then again I have discovered some stunning vendors that still create for Poser and yet more that create for Blender content that can be converted fairly easily.   I have thoroughly enjoyed using Poser 13, I find it to be stable and to render at a speed I could only dreamed of just a few years ago.  

Autodesk programs, Side Effects, Blender, and thousands of others programs suffer from FTH intervention too... Some oddly, even use it by default....... Some require exclusion from it to even function properly.... 

FTH is a Windows thing to prevent one program from affecting another, to stop it from crashing, doing odd calls due to hardware combo issues, etc... No program is immune to this, unless it is specifically listed in the exclusion list, FTH is turned off, or the program is hiding from it in plain sight... I don't recommend turning FTH fully off, under any circumstances. I say that, because Microsoft actually uses it.... 

Some programs apply a shim, to hide from FTH, and then don't tell you they did. Think of that as a way of hiding in plain sight. Just crashing to desktop here and there even if Windows may actually know how to prevent it from even happening...... Programs can crash, and then Windows doesn't apply a compatibility layer when it does...... It is not hard to figure out why, once you know a program can apply a shim and not tell you that it did............. FTH either didn't see what to fix, or a shim told it not to watch....

I have never had a released version of Poser flag FTH and write compatibility layers into the registry. Every ones mileage will vary on what programs, crash, flag FTH, and what doesn't. Simply because of the huge number of hardware combos out there, and system bugs on top of that.... So it is no surprise to me that it does randomly occur. I would rather know about it, than not. Or worse yet, have a program that tells Windows to ignore it so you never know it could be corrected..

FTH flags due to something in your system going wrong, that Windows knows how to fix. You can even look up why it did it in the event viewer.... That is, unless the program shimmed it, you turned it off, or it is in the exclusion list..... Then you just get a crash log.... Sometimes, and rarely, the fix doesn't work. That's just the way it is....

So ask yourself about all the programs that you have that have crashed and no FTH layer was set?. If Windows sees that it could correct that, FTH comes into play.... Usually the programs it applies something to were written for a prior operating system, but not always. It could be a hardware oddity it is trying to fix, or the program was already unstable for some other reason and did something odd. Which is usually what happened when the fix makes it worse.....

I currently have 3 programs listed in my FTH Layers, one is just a badly written license program for music software licenses, the others are Microsoft products, one installs FTH layers to itself, by default...

"Python (2.0) applications that are for internal use only and that aren’t exposed to the public Internet could in theory be run indefinitely."

From:

https://www.infoworld.com/article/3365221/python-2-end-of-life-how-to-survive-the-end-of-python-2.html

*

So, IMO, there was absolutely no need to disable Python 2.0 compatibility in Poser 12 and 13 in the first place.

Because last time I checked none of the Python 2.0 scripts that I'm using for decades now had ever any buisiness connecting to the internet, anyway.

(Nor has Poser itself, but that' another story)

;-P

JoePublic posted at 9:42 AM Sat, 6 January 2024 - #4480130

"Python (2.0) applications that are for internal use only and that aren’t exposed to the public Internet could in theory be run indefinitely."

From:

https://www.infoworld.com/article/3365221/python-2-end-of-life-how-to-survive-the-end-of-python-2.html

*

So, IMO, there was absolutely no need to disable Python 2.0 compatibility in Poser 12 and 13 in the first place.

Because last time I checked none of the Python 2.0 scripts that I'm using for decades now had ever any buisiness connecting to the internet, anyway.

(Nor has Poser itself, but that' another story)

;-P

Problems:

- Poser connects to the internet,
- and so does some scripts you can buy here: they phone home each time you launch them
- furthermore: no connected computer is 100% safe
- last but not least: python2 needed a major upgrade (performance, memory management)

I've looked at the utilities offered by Ken 1171_ Designs, and they look very helpful. However, since they appear to apply to Poser 12, and not Poser 11 or Poser 13, and are undoutedly some sort of Python magic, I'm reluctant to spend money on Ken 1171_ Designs' programs.

Most of them are running fine in Poser 13. GoPhysical, MatEdit, SkinEdit and such work seamlessly in the latest release (those are the ones I use regularly so I can speak to them). Also the Python magic you mention was always part of Poser, the Scripts menu items you see in the base program use Python, so not sure why the reluctance.

Soo, if Bondware was so concerned about my security that it had to take "unsafe" Python 2 out of my hands, why don't they just allow me to disable Poser 11's "phoning home" functionality so I can run it on a computer that is NOT connected to the internet at all?

I mean, what could be safer to avoid malware infection than an airgap?

Rhia474 posted at 11:26 AM Sat, 6 January 2024 - #4480144

Most of them are running fine in Poser 13. GoPhysical, MatEdit, SkinEdit and such work seamlessly in the latest release (those are the ones I use regularly so I can speak to them). Also the Python magic you mention was always part of Poser, the Scripts menu items you see in the base program use Python, so not sure why the reluctance.

You can add AutoMorpher, Quick Cam, Mat Tiler, Runtime Organiser and Scripts Manager to the list of scrips that work in Poser 13.  Something I should add is that I had a few problems with the GoPhysical in the way it would display which was done to my Windows and UI settings and, although it was not a problem with the script itself Ken_1171 helped me sort it, so there should be no problem with support.  Last but not least most of the scripts have some excellent videos in the promos so you can see what they do and how they work before you decide to buy.

Badia01 posted at 11:21 AM Sat, 6 January 2024 - #4480143

I've looked at the utilities offered by Ken 1171_ Designs, and they look very helpful. However, since they appear to apply to Poser 12, and not Poser 11 or Poser 13, and are undoutedly some sort of Python magic, I'm reluctant to spend money on Ken 1171_ Designs' programs.

Most Ken 1171_ Designs Scripts worked on P13.

Including something in a program that is a commercial goal that is no longer supported is an absolute no-go.

Greetings

JoePublic posted at 12:37 PM Sat, 6 January 2024 - #4480146

Soo, if Bondware was so concerned about my security that it had to take "unsafe" Python 2 out of my hands, why don't they just allow me to disable Poser 11's "phoning home" functionality so I can run it on a computer that is NOT connected to the internet at all?

I mean, what could be safer to avoid malware infection than an airgap?

Did you wear a spacesuit to avoid COVID?  Lets follow the science on this <Hah, I thought I would NEVER say that!>

Most do not dedicate their PC to one stand-alone application, and that hardware would be a hefty requirement for Poser users to asorb.  Python (PY) is a widly adopted, independantly developed scripting language, so Poser developers do not control the version lifecycle.  Furthermore, PY is a programming language that can hook to the Windows operating system API, with or without Poser open on the PC.  The Poser licence validation scheme, the "phone home" is a webservice and poses no further risk than the Internet Browser also installed on the operating system.  Internet connectivity and your firewall NAT may be a necessary point of of entry, however vulnerable software can be exploiuted from air gap too, if the payload is introduced in the installed content.  A PY can be installed hidden inside a zip package, in theory and a malicipous package could be introiduced any number of ways, the more obscure and manual the method the more likely it would be excused by anti-malware.  Who scans thier thumbdrives everytime?

I still have Poser Pro (7) and 2014 installed just to use the D3D scripts.  Its very sad the dev has passed.  They will not get updated. 
The D3D Delete and Figure to Prop were the most useful and quick tools and they were so fast.  Super quick to open and use with a few key presses.

The scripts still work with Poser 11.  D3D's estate has the final word on any script updating and recompiling.  ATM, they continue drawing revenue from the sales.