I'm curious if people still buy character/texture sets for V4/M4, maybe asking forum regulars isn't the right demographic to ask this question of. I imagine there are a lot of lurkers who do not post. Also, are there many vendors making stuff, again character sets, specifically for those figures? I know people still probably buy clothing items and such for those figures, I do, but maybe the character set market has dried up? Just curious.

I don't have any statistics to look at to give you any definitive answers. I know there are people who still use V4. I don't know if they're older members who already have most of the products or if they'll buy new. But, once this becomes available, there may be more who'll want stuff for her.

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I still buy a lot of stuff for V4 and M4, but I won't pay a lot. Because I already have a lot of stuff for them, and because it's often on sale for really cheap. When a character or clothing set is on sale for $3.50, I'll probably buy it, even if I'm not sure I need it.

I don't think vendors make stuff for V4 and M4 any more. Maybe stuff like hair or dynamic clothing will have V4/M4 fits, but usually it's aimed at newer figures like Dawn or La Femme.

I still use and buy for V4/M4 and K4 whenever I get a chance. There is still a bunch of stuff available for them..mostly for V4 tho. I get a lot of good use out of them.

Yes there are still creators around that make M4 V4 products. They are just not selling at renderosity one of them is "Xurge3d Corporation" just having Anniversary Sales making really cool stuff, well one of the old ones that is still capable of making good looking outfits. Most good Creators jumped to DS, A hand full Artists make outfits for La femme but for my taste not what the old ones were capable of creating when V4 was on top!

So if you are looking for V4 M4 new releases then you might have to google a little around with some luck you will find these, the few in here are mostly concentrating on La femme releases :)

Oh, yeah, there's still no real substitute for K4. Baby Luna is too much of a baby, and the various child morphs for Dawn, LF, etc. have a preteen look. K4 covers the gap.

I still use mostly V4 and M4. There's just not enough support for newer figures yet.

There is a bunch of V4 and M4 stuff that's no longer available, that I would buy if I could. Pulled from the RMP back when they used to cull items that didn't sell enough, I assume. Sometimes there's add-ons for them still for sale, but the item you need to use them is no longer available.

I love Xurge, not least because he makes so much stuff for males. Beautifully made, with great textures.

But I don't think he's making stuff for V4 or M4 any more. It's been a long time since I've seen any new releases there.

I was thinking from a content creator perspective. As in would it be worthwhile to make stuff for either figure. As much as I like La Femme and LHomme, and I have stuff created for La Femme specifically which I've resumed finishing, there's a couple of ideas I have, especially one in particular, that would best be served by the gen 4 topology out of the box from a sculpting perspective. I'm getting old and have had a couple of recent injuries that make it more difficult to work as many hours. I was thinking maybe even a very modest supplemental income making 3d content would be an option, as I enjoy art making and over the past couple of years have gotten more sophisticated with my poser content creation abilities in terms of realization of projects; morphs, jcms, file specifics, and modeling in general. I like those gen 4 meshes. I was thinking "hey, I've done the freebie thing, I do this stuff alot, maybe I could get a sandwich" lol. Maybe it sounds weird but my aches and pains are becoming a concern, and a sandwich would be nice doing something I enjoy. Was just curious if it would be completely foolish to utilize those models in such a context at this time.

Much as I, personally, would love to see more stuff being made for V4 and M4, I think you're probably better off making stuff for different figures if you actually want to make money.

Maybe Dawn 2 and Dusk 2 would be options? It sounds like Dawn 2, at least, is fairly close to release.

Along the same lines of thought, regardless of whatever is considered the latest thing, do people feel there is a viable place in the market for products that revisit older content in a considered and quality way. If someone were to, say, create something nice for the Terai Yuki figure (and this only a for instance) do you think there's a subculture, no matter how small, of people who would be interested in products like that?

The money thing isn't really that major of a concern. Wherever the muse happens to take you. I think set creation would probably be the most lucrative in that case.

Also, artists like Nursoda and Dinoraul (RIP) seem to have a Poser following and they operate completely outside of the "Popular Figure" flavor spectrum.

It would be nice to see a kind of resurgence of 'stand alones' happening with Poser too. And this might seem off topic but it's really not. It's Poser figures. Stand alones are uniquely "characters" that don't require a bunch of extra content to be specifically what they are successfully.

Anyway. Further thoughts on these topics are appreciated.

"Stand Alone" would be a good thing believing that such would be the most secure way of creations. A "Summoner's" thing atm and seems to work quiet well ! forender 3d used also to make quiet allot with success but stopped and making them for Daz now. Sure allot more work making standalones as you have to do the rigging from scratch and not just copy paste from a existing doll, the one needs great experience to make stand alone figures of good quality and creators in here that are left for poser do not have that experience jet ! Most of the capable ones from witch others could of learned left or gotten bugged out of the communities.

In the poser galleries you can see quiet allot of standalone figures used in Poser ! So it seems that some might be quiet popular.

I think Terai Yuki would be particularly tough, because she's not only a really old figure, she's no longer available, unless you want to try to buy from a Japanese web site. Perhaps there would be some interest in Japan, where there could be some nostalgia value, but marketing would be an issue if you don't speak Japanese.

I fear the Poser market in general has shrunk so much, it's already a niche. Poser standalone products can typically be used in DS as well, and it would probably be smart to offer DS support if you can.

That said, there would be some older products I spend money on. More textures for K4. The few available are really old, and look it. The mapping isn't quite the same as for V4/M4, so even if you can find adult textures without makeup or beard stubble, they don't look right.

Stuff for DAZ's chibi figure, Nana, which is pretty unique in Poserdom. Maybe some stuff for other toon figures, like Sam and Sadie.

Oh, and if you're doing standalone figures, I would love a cute cat figure, like in Secret Cat Forest. Definitely toony, but not anthropomorphic. A few cat-like poses, and a million different coat/eye colors (all sold separately, of course ;-).

My hairstyles come with fits for V4 and mostly for M4 too (except for a few ones that I make only for the women).

Personally I don't use V4 and M4 anymore and won't buy stuff for them, but hey, some people use them so I offer the fits for my hair.

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I appreciate vendors who provide fits for multiple figures.

I've actually grown pretty handy myself at making hair refits, For personal use I just do morph refits and parenting. I don't bother with the transfer to specific conformer. Plus I've accumulated some rather nifty tools over the years. Easypose Underground, Spawn and most of Netherworks utilities, PML, most of D3d's things. I've gotten really good with the dependency editor and am pretty good at creating JCMs now too. The newer built in Poser tools are a real help for content creation, less file editing. Though there's still quite s bit of that really.

I'm pretty handy at texture painting in Mudbox and Blender, in a stylized way. I love photoshop.

I'd say my weaknesses now would be PBR workflow and Superfly which I'm working to get get up to snuff with. Blender cycles is also something I need to work on, primarily because most of my time spent in Blender is strictly modeling and sculpting/retopo. Poser is my rendering destination. Although Eevee and some of the NPR aspects of Blender are very very interesting.

I'm very handy with IDL Firefly materials from endless studying of old BB threads and just from using Poser for quite a while. Superfly kind of blindsided me actually, especially since it's another thing that I have to come to terms with, I spend so much time concentrating on other content aspects that there's the temptation to keep working on the "fun" aspects of creation. I don't consider rendering particularly fun itself, setting up the things for the render is more interesting. I like a sort of comic/graphic novel/illustration style personally but I understand where the desire for photorealism comes from and also it's aims. There's room for all things in art really, except perhaps, and a very skeptical perhaps, evil.

I'm pretty decent at rigging too. In particular robots and insects. Non human figures. I'm also getting pretty good at retopology using Blender and retopoflow. Clothing creation I've done very little of, never really interested me, but I certainly appreciate the skill involved. I've made a few conformers. I want to make some more actually, my toolset is more conducive to it now. Plus there's the Fitting Room and Morphing Clothes which are both huge incentives in that direction.

Summoner.

I certainly think your models and Poser rigs are quite incredible. I have a hard time telling what's actually yours and what's appropriation from game assets though. In any case I mean no disrespect but you can see where it would be confusing. The rigs are obviously very involved.

Here's some images of some of my things that I have on my tablet (where I'm writing this), it's morphs, textures, straight models, poser figures, sculpts, and 2d imagery/ drawings. All mine. I also have quite a bit of paintings and ceramic sculptures in the traditional mediums, I did that for years and years in California. I just mostly faff about with 3d stuff now, and some drawing, and play Dungeons and Dragons (I DM)... and work.

Most of my custom figures were made when V4/M4 reigned supreme. I bought and still buy content for them because there is so much still. Sasha-16/19 helps with most issues with bending V4. Mortemvetus still makes amazing M4 morphs and textures and I'd dearly love to have more textures for males on the market. And more non-skin armor sets/ clothing made for both of those guys , based on historical examples like to old Historical Armor was for V4, or some (not all) of Xurge3D's products. So I'd say thee is still a market for those (and yes, a lot of people who spend money on the marketplace here don't post. I didn't until last year).

Currently working on...

Character set for La Femme and retopoing, texturing, and eventually rigging some open source insect models (completely open license, commercial and modification)... The La Femme project is nearing completion...

I plan on making some toon figures too. I have a lot of plans. Not much time though. And yes Rhia the M4 will include some rather nasty robotic feet that are sorta armor like I guess. In any case it's going to be a Poser version of an old comic book character of mine called Rake. Sort of a tragic Frankenstein post apocalyptic toxic avenger type. So maybe not quite up most people's alley for male figures lol. I used to draw comics too... sadly no Rake imagery handy at the moment.

La Femme's shins and thighs sort of bum me out about the figure though... The only way I can see to effectively change them is through altering her rig a bit to compensate morphs and then that would make clothing compatibilty an issue. I'm on the fence about what to do about that and have been concentrating on textures, morphs, and expressions. I can see just doing a custom body morph for nudes with match centers, which would also allow me to include some custom JCMs and then perhaps also including a dial spinner for the body using Deecey's Body kit resource for clothing compatibilty. I think that would be the best course of action with most versatility. I also need to work on the Superfly mats, right now she has a scatter/blinn variation Firefly mat. The Superfly mats will take some time. The textures are just about done, including some fantasy makeup options and quite a few custom eye textures.

If anyone has any advice about La Femme regarding my above statements please chime in. Especially since AO popped in to comment, I've been looking a bit at her stuff some to see what a viable marketplace La Femme package should look like, or thereabouts.

I like your La Femme character. IMO, La Femme is lacking in the idealized beauty department. Most of the textures available for her are more realistic than I prefer. Ditto La Homme. I don't want to see moles and pores. Just my taste. I prefer that pretty, airbrushed look.

I'd also like to see non-white and older characters, but again...attractive and somewhat idealized. Most of the older characters out there look like they could be a fairy tale wicked witch. Not many attractive 40-year-olds, let alone nonwhite attractive 40-year-olds.

There's not many merchant resources available for La Femme, compared to what was once available for V4. I purchased this...

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/sofia-high-res-human-photo-reference---extended-license/118225

by Blackhearted. A general photo resource, not specific to UVs, with plans to create my own resource via projection painting. For the characters I'm doing now I'm using the Gail resource

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/gail---la-femme-precious-merchant-resource/135938

and a lot of general resources. The Gail resource is pretty good in a more V4 type resource sense. Not so much the cracked lip, large pores look like some of the ones available for La Femme. The push for greater realism with Superfly unfortunately has made a sort of at odds situation in the textures department. Things that fashion photographers strive to eliminate in glamour photography are seemingly being emphasized and it's at odds also with the fundamentally unreal appearance of Poser figures in general. The Gail resource is pretty good but it required a bit of work to eliminate some baked in specular and shadows, and just the slightest bit of clone stamp seams showing. Especially on the buttocks and upper thighs, around the collars and shoulders. Not a lot really. I think it's a good resource. Baked in stuff is unavoidable really. It's fixable but it will make things look a bit more "painted".

Time will tell how the situation improves in the resource department for La Femme, let alone LHomme. I'm curious how long La Femme's life cycle will be before there's a new version. Or if there even is going to be a version 2. Though I'm not crazy about La Femme's base shape, and certain things are only really possible to change via subdivision morphs, there's a pretty decent amount of content available considering the figure's lifespan and some other factors.

I still buy stuff for V4 and M4 - and A3, V3 occasionally - they are sufficient for what I do.

Yes I would still look at V4, M4, even M3, especially if they fill gaps in terms of fantasy, sci-fi and historical content, and helpers. But I guess the market has dried up for generic and everyday content for them - if a content maker wants to churn out that stuff then they should be targeting G8.

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How you gonna ditch a sweet girl like Vicki 4? I'll buy hair for her... all she needs is hair LOL!

She must be a SoCal gurl lol.

Is that Superfly TwiztidKidd?

Poser4Fly lol I think it was rendered in Poser 7, last Poser version that had the P4 style render, I keep a render/image with each pz3 file so I know what they are. It really helps when you have over 200 pz3 files.

Poser's material room could use a zoom feature.

TwiztidKidd posted at 4:56PM Tue, 20 July 2021 - #4423566

Poser4Fly lol I think it was rendered in Poser 7, last Poser version that had the P4 style render, I keep a render/image with each pz3 file so I know what they are. It really helps when you have over 200 pz3 files.

Over 200? Pffft! Amateur. I have over 2,000. :D

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I need to be more organized with my pz3s. Frankly I don't keep many of them. I wish I still had a lot of them that were lost on older machines, file references would be a nightmare of course.

Has anyone ever noticed wandering nodes in Poser 11's material room? It's really annoying. I neatly place and align nodes, move to another material, come back to the previous material and the nodes are slightly out of alignment. It seems to do it with no rhyme or reason. Sometimes it does, sometimes my placement sticks. I have an align nodes script and can also edit the 2 node pos values in the files to match but I think it might be a bug. It's not a large position change, just a slight misalignment.

Amateurs keep only the essential pz3 files and delete the ones that are pretty much alike, to save disk space lol

I archive everything off to DVDs, seeing as they're dirt cheap. They'll probably last longer than me anyhow. :D

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I wrote stuff on DVDs before, after a year or two they were blank. Not very reliable, maybe cause I never stored the DVDs upright or the room temperature... but if it works for you that's all that matters.

If it is something I need, I don't care who it was made for originally. We have had the ability to decouple content from specific meshes for almost a decade now, and we have had the ability up update legacy meshes for almost as long. I still regularly use figures I bought back in 2005.

The post V4/M4 Poser figures are short of EVERYTHING except for early 20's Caucasians, so they don't get all that much use from me.

I will definitely buy hair for any figure, because it's so easy to use it for different figures. Just bought some hair over at DAZ, and didn't realize it was for V3. Doesn't matter; it will work fine with V4, Dawn, LF, etc.

I would love to see more....well, normal...hair available. There's a lot of wild fantasy hair. Or hair that looks like a woman might wear on her wedding day, or a teen might sport on date night. Not many styles that an ordinary woman might have at work, or that's suitable for an older woman.

I would like to see more normal everything. I am very, very tired of trashy outfits. LF & LH are the 1st set of Poser figures that I simply can't be bothered with. They bring absolutely nothing to the table, after a year and a half.

I just recently purchased a couple of Tempesta characters I didn't have yet, an M4 and a V4 (just posted a render of the M4 character a few days ago) and both are rather recent. I do believe Tempesta may be the only one still making Gen 4 characters, and since I adore her products I know that I would be more than happy to add them to my runtime. Oh, actually, Mortem Vetus also released a new M4 a couple of weeks ago and I didn't hesitate one second in buying him. The newer ones look great in Superfly out of the box too. I also purchased a few Ali hairs (even older styles). I find they adapt well to LF and LH too. Also some vendors are making items that have fits for Gen 4/ Dawn & Dusk and LF/LH. I think that's awesome and gives me extra motive to buy their products.

I only discovered Daz about 6 years ago and even though I kept buying stuff I would only make an occasion al render every now and then. At the time a lot of people were already switching to Daz 4 and Genesis (I was still using Daz 3 on a very old computer with a lot of limitations). Then about a year and a half ago I tried Poser and after the initial transitional phase I fell in love with it. But it wasn't until Poser 12 and LF/LH that I really found myself wanted to play more and more. I will never stop using Gen 4 however. I have too much stuff that I bought for V4/M4/K4 that haven't even used yet. Not to mention characters that I absolutely love. Also, there is already a lack of male clothing in general, but even more so for LH, so sometimes it's just more practical to use M4. And then there is the whole child factor. Baby Luna and Diva are adorable, but just recently I made a render with LH and it called for a little boy, so I had to dig up a K4 character and clothing for that.

As much as I love some of the Genesis characters I know that I will never invest in a computer powerful enough for Iray. Also while I do appreciate realism in renders, it's not exactly number one on the list of my priorities. I'm a photographer, so I guess the portraits I take of real people satisfy those needs. Don't get me wrong, I love how some things look realistic with Superfly and I love looking at renders made with other programs that look like real photos, but I know I can't achieve that and that is fine with me. There are still a lot of things I need to learn about 3D and when I read certain comments I realize that I am still basically a newbie. That said, what really interests me is making images that can go along with the stories in my head. I like playing with the lights and expressions. And I can do all that with Gen4 just fine. I just wish we had more stuff for the dudes, because I noticed that Genesis really has a LOT more male stuff in general: characters, clothing, hairstyles.

I think I may have strayed from the original question though, but to some it up yes, there are still some occasional new M4/V4's on the market and yes, if they look good I will buy them.

I still have hopes for LF and LH. I kind of like Anime Girl, though I'd prefer to have some more normal clothing for her. Or fantasy/SF clothing that looks something a human might actually wear while exploring strange new worlds or tramping through Mirkwood.

With a few exceptions, I'm underwhelmed by the clothing available for La Femme. A lot of pinup gear, and some contemporary clothing like jeans and t-shirts. Nothing wrong with that stuff, I use it sometimes, but I'd prefer things that could be used for fantasy or SF.

The lack of morphs for newer figures is another reason I keep using M4 and V4. There's so much available for the Gen 4 figures. It's much easier to get a likeness with them than with Dawn or LF.

I also still use K4 a lot. Now that Poser does scaling right, it's really easy to make K4 anything from a toddler to a preteen. And the clothing will fit, if you check the scaling box. I assume not many people use kids in their renders, though, since there's never been a lot of Poser stuff for kids.

TwiztidKidd posted at 5:16PM Wed, 21 July 2021 - #4423605

I wrote stuff on DVDs before, after a year or two they were blank. Not very reliable, maybe cause I never stored the DVDs upright or the room temperature... but if it works for you that's all that matters.

I found out the hard way that brand is a good indicator. Store brand discs failed after a few years, top drawer stuff is still going after about 15 years, or over 20 in the case of CDs.

Coppula eam se non posit acceptera jocularum.

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I have a ton of DVDs dating back to Poser 6, mostly from when I used to obsessively collect freebies and backup files. They all read fine. Now I have 2 paid Google drive accounts that I back up to, store imagery, etc.

randym77 posted at 7:21PM Wed, 21 July 2021 - #4423642

I still have hopes for LF and LH. I kind of like Anime Girl, though I'd prefer to have some more normal clothing for her. Or fantasy/SF clothing that looks something a human might actually wear while exploring strange new worlds or tramping through Mirkwood.

With a few exceptions, I'm underwhelmed by the clothing available for La Femme. A lot of pinup gear, and some contemporary clothing like jeans and t-shirts. Nothing wrong with that stuff, I use it sometimes, but I'd prefer things that could be used for fantasy or SF.

The lack of morphs for newer figures is another reason I keep using M4 and V4. There's so much available for the Gen 4 figures. It's much easier to get a likeness with them than with Dawn or LF.

I also still use K4 a lot. Now that Poser does scaling right, it's really easy to make K4 anything from a toddler to a preteen. And the clothing will fit, if you check the scaling box. I assume not many people use kids in their renders, though, since there's never been a lot of Poser stuff for kids.

I have the Millenium Baby. Never got around to buying the Gen 4 kids... There's something vaguely... off... about being a dude buying pre teen dolls lol. Plus I'd be tempted to morph them into something horrific :-D

Not so with the Millenium Baby, it's flat out creepy out of the box. I've been greatly tempted to recreate the creature baby from that cheesey 70s horror flick ITS ALIVE using the Millenium Baby, the commercial for which used to terrify me as a child when it would come on TV. I spent a lot of nights alone in a spooky old house as a child, my mother was fond of the Discotheques, watching things like Night Gallery and the Night Stalker (if anyone remembers those old 70s TV programs)...

I'm also surprised nobody has ever done a possessed Regan from The Exorcist... yikes.

Scratch that Regan comment, I think I vaguely remember something similar st RDNA. I just had a look at Kids 4. Surprised how expensive some of that older stuff still is. I didn't realize that K4 was a single figure with gender head morphs, I'm assuming it's the same mesh as M4/V4... maybe a different mapping though. I wouldn't mind having the k4 mesh in my runtimes for completionists sake. Might be useful for wee folk renders and such. I don't think I've ever seen Daz give away a K4 bundle like they have with V4/M4 though...

Never buy full price at DAZ. Their older stuff has a high normal price, but it's often put on sale at deep discount. I bought a lot of my K4 stuff from the FastGrab page.

It is the same mesh. The mapping is different, though apparently you can use DS to swap UVs and use V4 textures on the kids. I have used V4/M4 morphs on the kids.

I remember "It's Alive." I really wanted to see it, but my parents wouldn't let me. Kolchak was on of my favorite shows when I was a kid.

I like horror, but it's not something I render a lot. Maybe at Halloween...

You don't need DS to use V4 or M4 textures on K4.

The K4/V4 mixer script also works with the Gen 3 figures (Luke/Laura/David/Stephanie/Victoria/Michael). Can't mix between Gen 3 & Gen 4, but there is software to move Gen 4 textures to other figures.

At the end of the day, Poser gives users the ability to decouple content from the figure it was designed for originally, which is why I stick with Poser (not to mention that it is a much, much better written piece of software).

ssgbryan posted at 11:53AM Thu, 22 July 2021 - #4423736

You don't need DS to use V4 or M4 textures on K4.

The K4/V4 mixer script also works with the Gen 3 figures (Luke/Laura/David/Stephanie/Victoria/Michael). Can't mix between Gen 3 & Gen 4, but there is software to move Gen 4 textures to other figures.

Where can I get that script?

randym77 posted at 12:04PM Thu, 22 July 2021 - #4423746

ssgbryan posted at 11:53AM Thu, 22 July 2021 - #4423736

You don't need DS to use V4 or M4 textures on K4.

The K4/V4 mixer script also works with the Gen 3 figures (Luke/Laura/David/Stephanie/Victoria/Michael). Can't mix between Gen 3 & Gen 4, but there is software to move Gen 4 textures to other figures.

Where can I get that script?

https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/cols-m4k4-mixer/98820

No longer available. I use Colorcurvature's PML scripts constantly, I emailed him and he was very cool and just sent me the script free in an email attachment. It's totally changed and improved my morph workflow. Dude is awesome.

I'll take a look through my old emails and find his address and PM it to you if you like. You could ask him about it.

Here's a thread about it...

https://www.renderosity.com/rr/mod/forumpro/?thread_id=2866959

Also. At the end of the posted thread is Colorcurvature's email. Nap time.

I popped over to Hivewire to take a look at what's going on with Dawn 2, and I must say having finally taken a look at the topology/edgeflow, base resolution, default shape, and the fact that the figure is UDIM (absolutely ideal for me) that my search for a commercial figure that fits my needs might be concluding with Dawn 2. Very excited about the release. Not sure why I didn't look sooner. From what I can see the figure seems like a nice middle ground between the things I like about V4 and the things I like about La Femme.

Where is Karina's stuff/site?

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

JimTS posted at 5:09PM Tue, 27 July 2021 - #4424026

Where is Karina's stuff/site?

http://sasha-16.forumprofi.de/

nicht sprecken http://dl.free.fr/getfile.pl?file=/xXqoT7Ll no file?

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

Thanks

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

JimTS posted at 6:24PM Tue, 27 July 2021 - #4424033

nicht sprecken http://dl.free.fr/getfile.pl?file=/xXqoT7Ll no file?

Humph. Guess Karina doesn't want people to have Sasha anymore. Happens alot with obsessive free creations, people who make such things tend to be passionate dispositions. News to me. Doesn't bode well for a weight mapped M4, but people have been pining for that forever.

http://sasha-16.forumprofi.de/t151f23-SASHA-Edition-is-here.html

Try that.

Rhia474 posted at 7:40PM Tue, 27 July 2021 - #4424038

http://sasha-16.forumprofi.de/t151f23-SASHA-Edition-is-here.html

Try that.

I have sasha but for OP... getting the same result from your link. Are you getting a working link somewhere on that page?

This leads to a file not found...

This is merely speculation but Karina hasn't been around for a while. Maybe doing an Anton Kiesel... but AFAIK you can still find Apollo. Seems weird that the site is still up so maybe an exit stage left in preparation for an update.

Well drat, it still worked in January. I had both Sashas for a few years now but that's when the last big discussion was about her on these forums.

I would not ascribe motives/reasons/enter into speculations that we know nothing about, instead, hoping everything is well with Karina and they may come back one day.

You wouldn't.

But yeah. Well said. And ditto on those sentiments. It is peculiar though.

as a hoarder of such 3d stuff I'm alarmed I can't find sasha in zips or a runtime

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

Only Karina can decide whether Sasha is available or not. Pulling the download is pretty clear intent, for whatever reason. I'm surprised this is the first mention of it though. I'd check again at a later date I guess.

Interesting. Karina hasn't posted here since May 2020. I hope he's all right.

Last time Karina disappeared for a long time, he had almost been killed by a truck. I fear the worst now :/

Yes, same here. Anytime someone online disappears for a long time period, I worry that COVID got them. I hope that isn't the case, Karina made a great contribution to the Poser community but has experienced some bad luck with his health.

Devil's Advocate here; Logic says, from the facts we know. The download for Sasha is no longer there. Yet the site still is, with a dead link.

Another thing to consider; I've only used Sasha a few times but by my recollection doesn't the installation and certain compatibility features of Sasha-16 rely on Python? What would be the elephant in the room with that?

My Sashas work just fine in Poser 12, but I installed them when it was still Poser 11 era, so good point . Once installed and initialized, they should work perfectly in P12.

Again, i hope all is well with Karina, and given that the figure was provided free of charge to anyone who downloaded it I dont think anyone is owed an explanation here, especially if health related issues happened. I loathe speculations without facts so i will withdraw from this thread.

Maybe he's updating the download for 12, seems to make sense considering the reliance on python. That's about the only speculation I'll make. And it's regarding a technical aspect of a 3d model for Poser. Not any personal or privacy guesses. Makes the most sense.

Back to jaw and mouth morphs/expressions for La Femme.

Just an aside. Finally got around to loading Pauline 2. Did I get a busted copy or is that figure just a flat out mess? What's up with the genital dial? Smh. Obviously QA wasn't a priority with that figure.

From sasha-16 manual:

12.3. Where can I get an update?

 A valid question, but difficult to answer.

Due to my personal financial situation and the exchange rate of the UAH vs. US$ I can't afford to rent web space for hosting.

Until then we must rely on the current publishing scheme (whatever it will be in the end).

If that's not an option for you then send me a mail to "karina.kiev@ymail.com" and we can discuss alternatives.

I am sorry for these inconveniences, but I didn't find alternative ways to publish SASHA yet. I hope that will change as soon as SASHA becomes more popular (if ever).

---

I may be wrong - but I seem to remember that sasha-16 has a "do what you want with it" license. Not really official (there is nothing in the manual except a copyright notice). But I think Karina wrote something like that in the forum.

If the problem is only the download space, then this can be solved quickly and easily. If not through a free service, then financed with a few dollars. The few remaining Poser users will not make so much traffic that such a thing would be unaffordable.

---

Oh. Interesting. I don't know why Karina just doesn't put Sasha on a Google drive or something. I recall, in a prior conversation with Karina, months ago, when I mentioned Adobe, he said something like "I refuse to support gangsters"... so perhaps Karina doesn't have a high opinion of Google either. I think Sasha was suitably popular enough to find some inexpensive, or free, means of sharing. But again, that's just from the perspective of an outsider. Thanks for that bit of info ADP...

I think any number of people would be happy to host the figure on their site... maybe CobraBlade for example, there's others too. I just say CobraBlade because I know he hosts Snarly's things. Not to be too presumptuous, just a community example that I know of.

Hell. ShareCG. Though I have my own personal reasons for no longer having my things there. I remember distinctly Karina hosting the KVG there, years ago. Shame Englishbob doesn't have Morphography anymore. Or Basicwiz's hosting site.

"The few remaining Poser users will not make so much traffic that such a thing would be unaffordable."

It's shocking how many people have left.

Karina still has some freebies hosted at ShareCG...

I wouldn't call it leaving for no reason. Keep in mind, many Poser users are in their golden years and are simpling giving up the hobby voluntarily or because of health issues. You don't notice their disappearance until long after their absence is felt.

I'm surprised that Karina still has items hosted on sharecg. I could've sworn that he once said something about how sharecg removed one of his freebies (I think it was a female genitals addon?) and this soured him on hosting Sasha on sharecg. I could be mis-remembering it though.

I've moved on from Poser but I still like to keep an eye on the Poser community for any new developments that might lure me back. I'm slowly learning Blender3D since I've been more impressed with the features and constant evolution of the program. It has fluid sim, upcoming NPR shaders and comic book-ink renders, geometry nodes, support for Mixamo, dynamic cloth brush, an upcoming way to store figure poses, etc. all for free. It's hard to say no to that. Poser needs some revolutionary features (mostly in how it handles clothing, a hybrid of conforming and dynamic) to make it worth the price, IMO.

I suspect current events in Ukraine may be involved more than ware updates or rivalries but a severely worded cease and desist letter from DAZ About redistributing any portion of V4's Cr2 will jam up the most diligent coder be well Karina

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

I suspect that I might suspect to suspect :) One things for sure, Daz doesn't give a flying f**k about gen 3 figures being used illegally, and I can prove that fact.

JimTS posted at 1:31PM Mon, 02 August 2021 - #4424416

I suspect current events in Ukraine may be involved more than ware updates or rivalries but a severely worded cease and desist letter from DAZ About redistributing any portion of V4's Cr2 will jam up the most diligent coder be well Karina

US Copyright does not apply everywhere in the world. In most countries outside the US, a simple CR2 file is not protected. Lawyers can try to go against it, but will usually only get a tired smile back.

---

...also. I'm not really sure about the violation of intellectual properties by distributing any part of the V4 cr2. If that's the case then there's been a boatload of violations in plain sight. I think they're more concerned about proprietary morphs and misappropriation of the model itself.

Do we know it as a fact that they sent a C&D letter to Karina? Because if we don't, let's not spread any rumors. Way too many of those became facts on this site alone somehow.

I seriously doubt they did. Any more than they sent one to Erogenesis for Lali's bits.

I think it's just stirring the pot. I thought this topic had been buried. There's no use in guessing, it was interesting for like 5 minutes. Only Karina can say.

I'll say one last thing about the topic though. I come to this forum to talk about art and Poser figures and 3d software simply because it's the only place I have to talk about it at this time in my life. I very much enjoy chatting about technical stuff that pertains to Poser, and to an extent products that exist for Poser. It's an escape from the petty bullshit that that I've got to wade through just to earn my daily bread. If that's what this thread is going to turn into I don't want to hear about it, or anything about the real world in general, or anyone's disapproval of whatever, I'll just request it locked. :)

Back to Poser.

I agree about pettiness, and its much better to talk about the actual topic.

A previous version of Sasha used to be on ShareCG. Karina removed it for some reason. Not happy with ShareCG.

I could understand not being able to afford the bandwidth. And being in the Ukraine, it's difficult for us to offer help. GoFundMe, PayPal, etc. don't work in the Ukraine.

primorge posted at 3:52PM Wed, 04 August 2021 - #4424191

"The few remaining Poser users will not make so much traffic that such a thing would be unaffordable."

It's shocking how many people have left.

Some just lurk. On occasion. When the mood strikes. Or when it's time to dredge through the Freebies section. You know, stuff like that.

As for the Sasha thingy? Sadly, Wayback Machine came up dry as well. I promise I'm not snarking (because I still find myself on the lookout for stray NearMe stuff online - Niseisya actually still makes stuff for it on Pixiv (look up the site Pixiv, then the name, just don't check the R-18 option unless you want to see some stuff that will definitely make you recoil in disgust. On the other hand, you find gems like MNE in there - just look for "MNE dormant" , though he's definitely not been dormant.)

Anyrate, as you were...

Penguinisto posted at 4:40PM Wed, 04 August 2021 - #4424541

primorge posted at 3:52PM Wed, 04 August 2021 - #4424191

"The few remaining Poser users will not make so much traffic that such a thing would be unaffordable."

It's shocking how many people have left.

Some just lurk. On occasion. When the mood strikes. Or when it's time to dredge through the Freebies section. You know, stuff like that.

As for the Sasha thingy? Sadly, Wayback Machine came up dry as well. I promise I'm not snarking (because I still find myself on the lookout for stray NearMe stuff online - Niseisya actually still makes stuff for it on Pixiv (look up the site Pixiv, then the name, just don't check the R-18 option unless you want to see some stuff that will definitely make you recoil in disgust. On the other hand, you find gems like MNE in there - just look for "MNE dormant" , though he's definitely not been dormant.)

Anyrate, as you were...

I'm a member at pixiv. I'm fond of vroid and Japanese Poser figures and freebies myself.

MNE s'okay. My sera morph and jcm set will make his sera set obsolete though ;)

Edit; by tenfold

Not that Sera isn't obsolete though lol. I love obsolete figures.

Me too. Even at the hobbyist level, a little sub-D and some asset conversions, and it's like you have a whole other figure.

Mightily resisting the urge to go on a long protracted tangent about Poser figures, something l love to do but sadly very little reciprocation here, I tend to go on and I get the impression it rubs folks here the wrong way. Actual fact is I spend too much time talking here that's time I'm wasting when I should be working on my projects. But I will say that I appreciate your interest in such things Penguinisto, I've noticed over time, especially since you're (AFAIK) now a DS user and there's that one size fits all thing they have. But yeah I like the "Island of Misfit Poser Figures" thing that exists, I sink alot of time into that as a collector and "modder" I guess you could say. Eventually want to get back to making my own figures though, in a strange way it's easier.

Anyway, since you like some of that Japanese stuff keep a look out for "Sera's Secret" which I'll be releasing as a freebie eventually, probably not overly long, I've been juggling a lot of projects though. It has some adults only feature's, but much more besides that, so not sure if I can host it here. Definitely not ShareCG, blech. I will announce it in the freebies section though. I think you might appreciate the sheer oddity and obsessiveness of the thing. I'll probably release it under this name. Ditto with some Antonia "things".

See. I went on again lol.

Hah!

Hopefully I can still post my thoughts here: I still have V4/M4 products on my wishlist here and over on DAZ that I will buy eventually. Yes, I am still using Poser 11 and will use Poser 12 as soon as it goes on sale. Right now DAZ is having a great sale, and I am buying items cheap that are normally like $20. But I do love Renderosity Items. I have about 662 items on my Rendo wishlist. Mostly M4/V4 with I think a few non-figure props. Over at DAZ I have 400 on my wishlist. I do like to use DS Studio, but since I am just almost starting (as opposed to barely starting) it's just not as fun as Poser. I started with Poser 4. Also looking forward to working with La Femme and Le Homme...

Eddy

 

primorge posted at 6:52AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4424042

This is merely speculation but Karina hasn't been around for a while. Maybe doing an Anton Kiesel... but AFAIK you can still find Apollo. Seems weird that the site is still up so maybe an exit stage left in preparation for an update.

I hope they are OK. One can find Apollo because it's on my Google Drive. I could put up Sasha16, but I only have the 2017 edition; I missed the 2019 window. I recall trying to download it but the link was dead.

There is some discussion of .cr2s; DAZ' EULA does allow some IP redistribution if the original product is required, and Karina does discuss this in the documentation; viz;

"The base mesh of V4, the Morphs++ package, and all the other morphs are owned by Daz3D, thus I can't distribute them. You need to own these items in order to make SASHA work! "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

I guess I waited too long to edit my post; I looked up the original Sasha-16 ShareCG download page from the Wayback machine, and it's "unrestricted use":

https://web.archive.org/web/20170907154224/http://www.sharecg.com/v/88918/gallery/11/Poser/SASHA-16-The-Ultimate-V4-for-POSER

Here is the download for the 2017 version of Sasha-16, as well as a few JoePublic weightmapped figures (the latter are RTencoded)...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Wisdom of bagginsbill:

"Oh - the manual says that? I have never read the manual - this must be why."
“I could buy better software, but then I'd have to be an artist and what's the point of that?"
"The [R'osity Forum Search] 'Default' label should actually say 'Don't Find What I'm Looking For'".
bagginsbill's Free Stuff... https://web.archive.org/web/20201010171535/https://sites.google.com/site/bagginsbill/Home

WandW posted at 10:16AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425863

I hope they are OK. One can find Apollo because it's on my Google Drive. I could put up Sasha16, but I only have the 2017 edition; I missed the 2019 window. I recall trying to download it but the link was dead.

I just found the original "SASHA-16(2019Edition).zip" downloaded 06/2019, on my backup drive. PM me if you want a copy.

---

@all

WandW made my copy available for download via Google Drive: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

---

Thanx both of you

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

I go back further than V4 - I am still buying 2nd & 3rd gen Daz stuff, as well as legacy Poser stuff.  You have to do this, if you want a wide variety of characters. Pick any particular character vendor; for the most part, all of their characters look like they are closely related.  By using different base meshes, you avoid that.  Added bonus, Poser allows us to add new features (weight mapping, body chips, etc) to any mesh that doesn't already have them

Poser gives us the ability to separate clothing from figures, every character has access to every other figure's wardrobe (except for shoes - OTOH, if I ever get the hang of Shoe Last, that problem will also go away.

We also have helper programs that will allow us to move skin textures from one figure to another, hair from one figure to another, and the ability to add DS content into Poser, and save it out as Poser-native.

We have it better than everybody; well, everyone that actually uses the features available to them.

The Best is yet to come and it's time to upgrade to a better box!

A word is not the same with one writer as with another. One tears it from his guts. The other pulls it out of his overcoat pocket
Charles Péguy

 Heat and animosity, contest and conflict, may sharpen the wits, although they rarely do;they never strengthen the understanding, clear the perspicacity, guide the judgment, or improve the heart
Walter Savage Landor

So is that TTFN or TANSTAAFL?

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

takezo3001 posted at 10:06 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431911

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

V4 has a whole mesh obj. There's been solutions to the FBM problem/export from scene unwelding/ etc issues for years. Either via scripts, working with the obj from geometries, or loading and spawning props from a version of the base obj in scene. Props are not unwelded at groups, just "live" figures during export. Sure it was a PITA but scripts have also existed for a long time that solved that problem.

From my recollection it was actually miniscule scaling errors from multiple export import procedures with morphs, adding up into big problems over time, in particular with single morph targets, that were a real issue. Haven't seen that problem since Poser 8 or thereabouts...

WandW posted at 7:40 AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425868

I guess I waited too long to edit my post; I looked up the original Sasha-16 ShareCG download page from the Wayback machine, and it's "unrestricted use":

https://web.archive.org/web/20170907154224/http://www.sharecg.com/v/88918/gallery/11/Poser/SASHA-16-The-Ultimate-V4-for-POSER

Here is the download for the 2017 version of Sasha-16, as well as a few JoePublic weightmapped figures (the latter are RTencoded)...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

Sorry: I wasn't aware of the above thread before. If you would like to download the official Sasha-19 version, here is the original ZIP file:

https://kdrive.digital-paradize.com/app/share/116364/a590114f-92b3-4429-9463-f638386a1d49

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

primorge posted at 10:15 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431912

takezo3001 posted at 10:06 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431911

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

V4 has a whole mesh obj. There's been solutions to the FBM problem/export from scene unwelding/ etc issues for years. Either via scripts, working with the obj from geometries, or loading and spawning props from a version of the base obj in scene. Props are not unwelded at groups, just "live" figures during export. Sure it was a PITA but scripts have also existed for a long time that solved that problem.

This was the method I used ten or so years ago

takezo3001 posted at 3:44 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431923

primorge posted at 10:15 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431912

takezo3001 posted at 10:06 PM Wed, 15 December 2021 - #4431911

I myself gravitated away from V4 mainly due to the nightmare that is developing any FBM for her, as you're forced to morph each body part separately while respecting the seams so you end up saving a bunch of separate pieces instead of the freedom of doing an FBM with the figure intact, and with the added benefit of stretching/growing/shinking the limbs without concerns for the rigging as they can easily be fitted to your character!

So yeah, I have a love/despise relationship with V4 and the rest of the 4th generation of Daz characters, sure I had fun with her but that was because there was nothing else!

V4 has a whole mesh obj. There's been solutions to the FBM problem/export from scene unwelding/ etc issues for years. Either via scripts, working with the obj from geometries, or loading and spawning props from a version of the base obj in scene. Props are not unwelded at groups, just "live" figures during export. Sure it was a PITA but scripts have also existed for a long time that solved that problem.

This was the method I used ten or so years ago

It was truly a slog compared with the frightfully easy way of doing it now with generation 5-8 export to Zbrush=> morph=> Import back into DS, I don't know how easy it is now in poser 12 as I refuse to pay for always-online DRM for my 3D progs otherwise I would have snagged it!

But yeah, even with scripts you were still limited to morphing inside the confines of V4's rig, as you could not make her into a literal T-Rex! Yeah, yeah I know it's for the male character, but still...

I would guess that poser 12 has that same tech available, though V4 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because she represents/symbolizes old tech and those still clinging to the long-dead past instead of moving forward, as Le Femme is a step in the right direction, let's just hope people don't become complacent and stop developing for her in favor of just sticking to the inane "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude!

You may be perfectly right on a technical point of view, and I won't discuss it as it's not my in my field of competence, but I find the way to explain it rather harsh and it somewhat looks like public denigration for those who stick with them, and from time to time with Aiko3-based characters

I mean: have you ever tried to strike a complex pose with La Femme, and then tried the same pose with Sasha-19 (yes it's a Vic4, a weightmapped version)?
I've done the test by posing L'Homme lately and "the long-dead past" is 20x faster and easier to pose.

From time to time, I even had to abandon the idea of a dynamic cloth with some  La Femme characters, whereas I've never had a single problem with those long-dead past thingies , not to count of the incredible number if existing morphs to change the shape of the body, modern characters such as La Femme is very, very, very far behind if you're not a modeler, which does not prevent me from fully supporting La Femme and many related products.

𝒫𝒽𝓎𝓁

---

(っ◔◡◔)っ

👿 Win11 on i9-13900K@5GHz, 64GB, RoG Strix B760F Gamng, Asus Tuf Gaming RTX 4070 OC Edition, 1 TB SSD, 6+4+8TB HD
👿 Mac Mini M2, Sonoma 14.6.1, 16GB, 500GB SSD
👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

I use mainly La Femme. But more recently I've been tinkering with a new figure, Nova. Personally I can find uses for most of my Poser figures. I use Zbrush, Mudbox, Blender, and more recently have started to subscribing to 3d coat. For a strictly "I have an idea for a render and I need a human figure to look like..." It's really not an issue as all of these models can be posed, welded, and exported from Poser. Including clothing and hair. At that point they can be changed just as you would any basemesh or model. These things are obj models first and Poser figures after the fact, and this route goes in both directiions.

V4 has a ton of content. Plain and simple. I like her topology also, which I know is a contentious subject. Sasha 16 is ok. I don't particularly care for her weightmapping to be honest, it's better than nothing though. Both La Femme AND V4 Sasha 16 can be improved via further jcms to more fit my preferences, I've done so with La Femme (for, as yet, personal use, particularly for pin up/nudey mag type stuff). There's only so many hours in the day.

There's no perfect figure, in any software. Period. (Edit; a very subjective statement I know, the point being there's always fixes needed and room for improvement)

Y-Phil posted at 1:27 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431918

WandW posted at 7:40 AM Mon, 23 August 2021 - #4425868

I guess I waited too long to edit my post; I looked up the original Sasha-16 ShareCG download page from the Wayback machine, and it's "unrestricted use":

https://web.archive.org/web/20170907154224/http://www.sharecg.com/v/88918/gallery/11/Poser/SASHA-16-The-Ultimate-V4-for-POSER

Here is the download for the 2017 version of Sasha-16, as well as a few JoePublic weightmapped figures (the latter are RTencoded)...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9_I3V6UTuuXbUVlV1NrYUY0Qzg?resourcekey=0-QEwhLND1LUIGHTdpvfUI_Q&usp=sharing

Sorry: I wasn't aware of the above thread before. If you would like to download the official Sasha-19 version, here is the original ZIP file:

https://kdrive.digital-paradize.com/app/share/116364/a590114f-92b3-4429-9463-f638386a1d49

Thanks for that. I have the latest Sasha but I can't seem to find my backup archives. Good to have.

takezo3001 posted at 3:44 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431923

I would guess that poser 12 has that same tech available, though V4 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, mainly because she represents/symbolizes old tech and those still clinging to the long-dead past instead of moving forward, as Le Femme is a step in the right direction, let's just hope people don't become complacent and stop developing for her in favor of just sticking to the inane "if it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude!

My time is valuable - anything I can do to save it, I am going to do it. It isn't clinging to the long-dead past. It is more of a Use the right tool for the job situation. 

If I need ANYTHING outside of pin up, V4/M4 is the way to go - there is more content (by multiple orders of magnitude) than all other post-V4/M4 Poser figures combined. V4/M4 is the lingua franca for Poser - and that isn't changing anytime soon - .  I have via Poser, the ability to add features such as weight mapping, subdivision, body chips, etc to any figure I want to use.  Why limit myself to one that has such little support?

I view Le Femme as a solution in search of a problem.  To be brutal about it - why should I use Le Femme? I own all of blackhearted figures going all the way back the the V3 era, that is all she looks like to me.  What problem does she solve?  The only thing I can see is "bending".  This is an issue if the artist only cares about pin up, with near naked figures.  If I don't do that, why bother?

Le Femme (and to a greater extent) La Homme lack pretty much everything.  There is very little in the way of characters, clothing, etc.  What is available is mostly niche outfits.  Closing in on two years, and neither figure has a basic wardrobe.  That is going to slow down adoption pretty fast.  How many characters are available?  How many are NOT early 20's Caucasians?  Not a lot to work with outside of pin up - which I got tired of about 10 years ago.

I need so much more than LF & LH offer, so my solution is to use everything

Okay, some wee nitpicks.

1. LA Femme and LE Homme (L'Homme if you are precise)--feminine and masculine. Sorry, but it hurts.

2. Both have basic wardrobes--both have pants, t-shirts, sneakers, boots, underwear. That's what basic is in my book. LH even has suits. Let me know if you want me to post the links.

3. La Femme has quite a few ethnic characters, Le Homme much less--maybe because in my opinion, LH is atrociously badly planned, shoulders, torso, hips... and people just don't want to work with him. If you only do portraits, he is amazing.

Y-Phil posted at 4:16 AM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431925

You may be perfectly right on a technical point of view, and I won't discuss it as it's not my in my field of competence, but I find the way to explain it rather harsh and it somewhat looks like public denigration for those who stick with them, and from time to time with Aiko3-based characters

I mean: have you ever tried to strike a complex pose with La Femme, and then tried the same pose with Sasha-19 (yes it's a Vic4, a weightmapped version)?
I've done the test by posing L'Homme lately and "the long-dead past" is 20x faster and easier to pose.

From time to time, I even had to abandon the idea of a dynamic cloth with some  La Femme characters, whereas I've never had a single problem with those long-dead past thingies , not to count of the incredible number if existing morphs to change the shape of the body, modern characters such as La Femme is very, very, very far behind if you're not a modeler, which does not prevent me from fully supporting La Femme and many related products.

My criticism is definitely against the stagnation of our industry (Hobbyist 3D artist) as it is relatively small compared with the semi/pro level of 3D artists, and it is our industry that is plagued with the if it ain't broke don't fix attitude, so yeah I want to see the Poser community thrive and not stagnate, but it won't, not with that attitude; how can it when a large percentage of its users reject new tech/innovation and consider it a useless fad?

This is an industry that relies wholly on new tech/innovation in order to improve and get better, and thrive, and if it doesn't grow to attract new people then just how do you suppose it will even last as there is no one else looking to buy Poser if Bondware decides to slow down development for it... I mean there are no demands for new features as the majority of its users are fine with the status quo as this subforum has very little activity...

I don't use poser anymore ever since Daz stopped their character support, and I would buy poser 12 as it does have a robust character creation suite, yet I refuse to pay for always-online DRM; as far as posing is concerned I have a much better time with the various generations of characters past the 4th generation and have many more scenes made than I ever have with posette/V2-V4 so I've been around since poser 3 and there are some definite strengths that I want with Poser, too bad I'll never use them as I don't support always-online DRM!

I still hope that Le Femme is a contender as competition is best for both programs/characters as she represents change, adaptation, and innovation and I hope she continues to grow, but she won't if the very people that continue to use/support V4 reject anything about the french duo as new-fangled, and if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude gets applied to them, which it has to a point as there's far fewer content than there is for the 4th generation of Daz characters, not to mention the 5th-8th...

So yes, I don't care for that attitude, and I'm not trying to be being harsh, it's just that there's there is no way of criticizing that attitude where people here won't take offense to it, but the subject still needs to be discussed if we want to be able to enjoy Poser ten years from now...

ssgbryan posted at 2:05 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431955

My time is valuable - anything I can do to save it, I am going to do it. It isn't clinging to the long-dead past. It is more of a Use the right tool for the job situation.

If I need ANYTHING outside of pin up, V4/M4 is the way to go - there is more content (by multiple orders of magnitude) than all other post-V4/M4 Poser figures combined. V4/M4 is the lingua franca for Poser - and that isn't changing anytime soon - .  I have via Poser, the ability to add features such as weight mapping, subdivision, body chips, etc to any figure I want to use.  Why limit myself to one that has such little support?

I view Le Femme as a solution in search of a problem.  To be brutal about it - why should I use Le Femme? I own all of blackhearted figures going all the way back the the V3 era, that is all she looks like to me.  What problem does she solve?  The only thing I can see is "bending".  This is an issue if the artist only cares about pin up, with near naked figures.  If I don't do that, why bother?

Le Femme (and to a greater extent) La Homme lack pretty much everything.  There is very little in the way of characters, clothing, etc.  What is available is mostly niche outfits.  Closing in on two years, and neither figure has a basic wardrobe.  That is going to slow down adoption pretty fast.  How many characters are available?  How many are NOT early 20's Caucasians?  Not a lot to work with I need outside of pin up - which I got tired of about 10 years ago. so much more than LF & LH offer, so my solution is to use everything

If you don't fit the description, why choose to get offended by it? It's like a world-class athlete and yoga instructor getting offended when someone calls them fat...You're 100% correct though, Le Femme could use much better and diverse content, as the world is not made up of a singular demographic, and she is definitely stagnating compared with V4 and could very well be a driving force for this program's 1st party character...

The main reason why The French duo lacks everything compared with the 4th generation is that the poser community largely sticks to that generation only, and does not want anything new or different so there's no driving force for innovation as no one is buying anything put out for them (Just like with Don/Jessy, remember them?) which kills the motivation for content creation altogether, hence my criticism with the if it ain't broke don't fix it attitude, and using Le Femme's stagnation as an example is a perfect representation.

As far as content, the 4th-8th generation of Daz models and even the current models can still use V4's entire library as well as the entirety of the genesis 1-8 model's, as Daz's character development has not stopped with V4, as there was still demand for new and better solutions, Hell, I was using both but stopped when Daz quit developing their characters for poser and I refuse to buy P12 as I don't care for always-online DRM, in spite of loving poser's character development suite as even their animation tools far surpass DS's own!

I consider them as 3D programs not people or creatures with any sentience that we owe our allegiance, they're simply tools for the artist to create with...

I moved away from V4 a few years ago now although I do still use the figure on the odd occasion.  Figure wise I use Dawn SE in any render that needs a female figure and I have not moved over to Le Femme because I content I like to use that simply does not exist for Le Femme.  I stick to one figure not because I regard it as a person or because I owe it any allegiance but because most of my renders are to support a story which revolves around a major character, which means I stick to one for consistency.  Changing to another figure is difficult for me and there has to be some benefit for me to spend the time making the change.

It is one thing to say that V4's entire library can be used by current figures but for a vast percentage of that I would have to ask why would you want to.  Due to their age few of the materials make use of the improved render engines and very few use dforce.  

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

I don't think that I'd say La Femme is stagnating. There are new products for her in the RMP every week. Vendors aren't making anything for V4 any more. Maybe there will be V4 fits for hair or dynamic clothes, but you don't see stuff made specifically for V4 these days. This suggests the customers have moved on.

It is hard to compete with V4's backlog, though. I would guess most of us are not as skilled as ssgbryan or primorge. We're not going to open up the hood and tinker. Even converting clothing is pretty inconvenient for the average user.

I use both V4 and La Femme (and others, too). But V4 more, because there just isn't enough support for La Femme yet. Clothes, textures, morphs. If you want to do a render of, say, a block party in Mumbai, you need more than one or two "ethnic" textures. I think there's only a handful of vendors making stuff for La Femme, and they can only work so fast. (There's also a tendency for characters made by the same vendor to look somewhat alike, further limiting diversity.)

I am kind of excited about Dawn 2. It sounds like they've really put a lot of thought into her, and are doing some innovative things. They may not work out, but why make a new figure if you're not going to do something new? And it seems like they have enough people working on content that she'll have decent support.

hornet3d posted at 6:21 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431974

I moved away from V4 a few years ago now although I do still use the figure on the odd occasion.  Figure wise I use Dawn SE in any render that needs a female figure and I have not moved over to Le Femme because I content I like to use that simply does not exist for Le Femme.  I stick to one figure not because I regard it as a person or because I owe it any allegiance but because most of my renders are to support a story which revolves around a major character, which means I stick to one for consistency.  Changing to another figure is difficult for me and there has to be some benefit for me to spend the time making the change.

It is one thing to say that V4's entire library can be used by current figures but for a vast percentage of that I would have to ask why would you want to.  Due to their age few of the materials make use of the improved render engines and very few use dforce.  

Why would anyone use the entire library? Simple, they made some excellent clothes for V4 and why not use them for improved versions of the figure? Plus you can easily change the materials from PoserPP/ 3Delite to Iray as all you need to do is select all the materials, hit Iray uber default and you're golden!

And you can easily convert clothing to be used with DForce...

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randym77 posted at 6:30 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431975

I don't think that I'd say La Femme is stagnating. There are new products for her in the RMP every week. Vendors aren't making anything for V4 any more. Maybe there will be V4 fits for hair or dynamic clothes, but you don't see stuff made specifically for V4 these days. This suggests the customers have moved on.

It is hard to compete with V4's backlog, though. I would guess most of us are not as skilled as ssgbryan or primorge. We're not going to open up the hood and tinker. Even converting clothing is pretty inconvenient for the average user.

I use both V4 and La Femme (and others, too). But V4 more, because there just isn't enough support for La Femme yet. Clothes, textures, morphs. If you want to do a render of, say, a block party in Mumbai, you need more than one or two "ethnic" textures. I think there's only a handful of vendors making stuff for La Femme, and they can only work so fast. (There's also a tendency for characters made by the same vendor to look somewhat alike, further limiting diversity.)

I am kind of excited about Dawn 2. It sounds like they've really put a lot of thought into her, and are doing some innovative things. They may not work out, but why make a new figure if you're not going to do something new? And it seems like they have enough people working on content that she'll have decent support.

=================================================================================================

Good, I really like the idea of being wrong about this, here's to Dawn 2!

takezo3001 posted at 6:42 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431978

hornet3d posted at 6:21 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431974

I moved away from V4 a few years ago now although I do still use the figure on the odd occasion.  Figure wise I use Dawn SE in any render that needs a female figure and I have not moved over to Le Femme because I content I like to use that simply does not exist for Le Femme.  I stick to one figure not because I regard it as a person or because I owe it any allegiance but because most of my renders are to support a story which revolves around a major character, which means I stick to one for consistency.  Changing to another figure is difficult for me and there has to be some benefit for me to spend the time making the change.

It is one thing to say that V4's entire library can be used by current figures but for a vast percentage of that I would have to ask why would you want to.  Due to their age few of the materials make use of the improved render engines and very few use dforce.  

Why would anyone use the entire library? Simple, they made some excellent clothes for V4 and why not use them for improved versions of the figure? Plus you can easily change the materials from PoserPP/ 3Delite to Iray as all you need to do is select all the materials, hit Iray uber default and you're golden!

And you can easily convert clothing to be used with DForce...

==============================================================

Still not convinced that the end result will be as good as the best being created for the present figures.  What appears to be easy for some is not so easy for others so many users would not do the conversion anyway and would stick with old materials.  

Still I guess it is down to the individual artist all I know is that, despite the shortage of content for Dawn, I rarely use anything from my V4 runtimes.  Poses are the only exception as most V4 poses work with Dawn with virtually no adjustment except maybe around the neck and fingers.   As the loaded pose is only ever a starting pose for me this minor adjustment is not real bother.

 

 

I use Poser 13 on Windows 11 - For Scene set up I use a Geekcom A5 -  Ryzen 9 5900HX, with 64 gig ram and 3 TB  storage, mini PC with final rendering done on normal sized desktop using an AMD Ryzen Threadipper 1950X CPU, Corsair Hydro H100i CPU cooler, 3XS EVGA GTX 1080i SC with 11g Ram, 4 X 16gig Corsair DDR4 Ram and a Corsair RM 100 PSU .   The desktop is in a remote location with rendering done via Queue Manager which gives me a clearer desktop and quieter computer room.

hornet3d posted at 7:05 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431983

Still not convinced that the end result will be as good as the best being created for the present figures.  What appears to be easy for some is not so easy for others so many users would not do the conversion anyway and would stick with old materials.  

Still I guess it is down to the individual artist all I know is that, despite the shortage of content for Dawn, I rarely use anything from my V4 runtimes.  Poses are the only exception as most V4 poses work with Dawn with virtually no adjustment except maybe around the neck and fingers.   As the loaded pose is only ever a starting pose for me this minor adjustment is not real bother.

Fair enough point...

Judging from the Star Trek thread at DAZ...it is more difficult than you'd think, converting stuff from V4 to Genesis. But there's also interest in doing it. There's a TON of Star Trek stuff made for V4, M4, and even older figures. Morphs, uniforms, textures. (Orion's Jeri Ryan morph is the best I've ever seen. I still use it, even though it's for V3.)

And there's still no real substitute for the Valiant and Courageous outfits, as a base for uniforms. People making Trek uniforms for Genesis usually use a bodysuit, but most of the Trek uniforms aren't skin tight bodysuits.

Niche use, I'm sure, but aren't they all? Not everyone wants to make hyperealistic renders. Just judging from the galleries, there's a lot of people doing toon or illustrative renders. Personally, I'm more likely to use Photoshop to make a render look hand-drawn than I am to aim for photoreal.

randym77 posted at 7:51 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431986

Judging from the Star Trek thread at DAZ...it is more difficult than you'd think, converting stuff from V4 to Genesis. But there's also interest in doing it. There's a TON of Star Trek stuff made for V4, M4, and even older figures. Morphs, uniforms, textures. (Orion's Jeri Ryan morph is the best I've ever seen. I still use it, even though it's for V3.)

And there's still no real substitute for the Valiant and Courageous outfits, as a base for uniforms. People making Trek uniforms for Genesis usually use a bodysuit, but most of the Trek uniforms aren't skin tight bodysuits.

Niche use, I'm sure, but aren't they all? Not everyone wants to make hyperealistic renders. Just judging from the galleries, there's a lot of people doing toon or illustrative renders. Personally, I'm more likely to use Photoshop to make a render look hand-drawn than I am to aim for photoreal.

Yeah, there are a ton of incredibly made V4 clothing, hell, there was a thread about this very thing over at the Daz forums (Don't ask me to find it as their search engine sucks!) so no wonder there is still an interest for them! :)

Also, there's another debate thread over at the Daz forums with 3Delight (stylistic renders) vs Iray (Realistic renders) For me personally, I had a great time using stylized sculpted lighting for use with my old renders, take a look at my old rendo gallery! Yet I have been tending towards more realistic renders now, but I just may re-do some of my old scenes using a custom toon with sculpted lighting!

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

Rhia474 posted at 9:22 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431988

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

I may be wrong but there's a terminology in certain types of stylized drawing and painting that's akin to "sculptural lighting", I've heard it referred as such in the past. It's similar to ambient occlusion type effects or an overall 'sculptural' type of non realistic light that uniformly models light and shade. Hence a sculptural effect. Non realistic Poser lighting and diffuse can produce this kind of thing easily. You see it alot in old Poser images... note: a very off the cuff explanation, but I come from a traditional drawing/painting/sculpture background and this is where I've encountered it. Very much like this...

Rhia474 posted at 9:22 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431988

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

Hogarth is a prime example of using this lighting technique!

I find it compelling as it perfectly enhances details, but is wholly unrealistic and much more stylistic! :)

primorge posted at 9:34 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431989

Rhia474 posted at 9:22 PM Thu, 16 December 2021 - #4431988

Out of curiosity: what is 'sculpted lighting'? I don't think I've heard that term before. Thank you!

I may be wrong but there's a terminology in certain types of stylized drawing and painting that's akin to "sculptural lighting", I've heard it referred as such in the past. It's similar to ambient occlusion type effects or an overall 'sculptural' type of non realistic light that uniformly models light and shade. Hence a sculptural effect. Non realistic Poser lighting and diffuse can produce this kind of thing easily. You see it alot in old Poser images... note: a very off the cuff explanation, but I come from a traditional drawing/painting/sculpture background and this is where I've encountered it. Very much like this...

*Snip*

LOL, You beat me to it, and with the exact same example that I posted no less, and yes it's not sculpted, but sculptural lighting, it's been a looong time since I used that terminology!

;)

If you want a great example used with poser look at my brownish demon in my gallery!

Got it, thank you very much. I am familiar with the style, now I know the name. Now. How would you create it in Poser?

Rhia474 posted at 7:15 AM Fri, 17 December 2021 - #4432006

Got it, thank you very much. I am familiar with the style, now I know the name. Now. How would you create it in Poser?

Invested in this I see. I'll post a few different ways I would do it with varying degrees of intensity. I'm at work but if I have time, I'm finishing up an upload for a morph/jcm/pose controller system for Nova that I'd like to package up and share this weekend, I'll post something with that style here... Sometime.

Take your time; I will be out of town for the holiday until next Monday with no Poser access. And thank you, looking forward to it when you have time.

Michael 4.

Set up starts with posing Michael 4 to approximate the Hogarth pose. Exported to mudbox and some details added. Set up a simple OpenGL stippling shader. It's just an edge blend and a noise run through a multiply. Preview render, render time: 2 seconds.

I'll post an IBL/Ambient Occlusion set up tomorrow using V4.

This is a pretty spectacular rendering of Hogarth's work! It's a shame that you don't have a Rendo gallery!

Sorry late with this, distracted by other things. I use variations of this a lot, sometimes with composites of sketch renderer passes mixed in, for "sculptural" type stuff...

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2890236

In this instance an IBL/AO hybrid with low IBL intensity and a single spot. Materials are just a noise and blinn but the different objects in the scene have varying diffuse values. Figure is La Femme (I know I said V4 but I have so many morphs I've made for LF and I hardly ever render them, so it was an opportunity to dial some in... OT figure). All shapes/sculpts/morphs are mine.

The render took about 5 or 6 minutes.

primorge posted at 2:32 PM Sun, 19 December 2021 - #4432115

Sorry late with this, distracted by other things. I use variations of this a lot, sometimes with composites of sketch renderer passes mixed in, for "sculptural" type stuff...

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2890236

In this instance an IBL/AO hybrid with low IBL intensity and a single spot. Materials are just a noise and blinn but the different objects in the scene have varying diffuse values. Figure is La Femme (I know I said V4 but I have so many morphs I've made for LF and I hardly ever render them, so it was an opportunity to dial some in... OT figure). All shapes/sculpts/morphs are mine.

The render took about 5 or 6 minutes.

I'm really digging your artwork, I'm gonna have to save this thread!

Thanks takezo3001

primorge posted at 6:43 PM Sun, 19 December 2021 - #4432126

Thanks takezo3001

Sorry for the delayed response, but I had a vicious virus attack and had to reset my PC, but you are very welcome; I would love to see your gallery!

undefined posted at 2:08 PM Mon, 19 July 2021 - #2963675

I'm curious if people still buy character/texture sets for V4/M4, maybe asking forum regulars isn't the right demographic to ask this question of. I imagine there are a lot of lurkers who do not post. Also, are there many vendors making stuff, again character sets, specifically for those figures? I know people still probably buy clothing items and such for those figures, I do, but maybe the character set market has dried up? Just curious.

Few who post here also post in the galleries and there are members who buy but don't do either, so I don't know if what those in the forums say has any bearing on Poser users' opinions in general. It might be an accurate representation, but I have no way to know that. But taking a look at several pages on the new products in the marketplace, I don't see anything for V4, save possible hair that can be used on multiple figures. Anything for a figure was for either G3/8 or for Lafemme/L'homme.

I have no special insights or information that any other member can't get just by looking at the site, but my guess is that perhaps, the V4 customer base is waning. Most here who say they use V4 say they use her because they have so much stuff for her, which implies they might not need to buy much. Newer users who don't have all that much content may decide to use and support the current figure that comes with the software rather than pay for an older figure who (at full price) costs $30 for just the base figure. Yes, I know you can usually find her on sale, but new users may not know that.

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Odd that this thread is still lingering on.

I'll answer my own OP.

I'd be inclined to use V4/M4 for my own personal things occasionally. Especially M4. I'd lean absolutely toward creating redistributable things for LF or a host of other figures before I'd spend the time doing so for the Gen4. If I wanted to try and sell something it would definitely be for LF rather than V4, I already have so many things made that are in varying stages of completion... but I like to obsess over details, tinkering and such so commerce is just a hazy notion. Looking forward to seeing what Dawn2 brings to the table.

Yes, I think a lot of us who still use V4 don't need to buy a lot of stuff for her because we already have so much. I have fifteen years worth of stuff.

And it's often so cheap, because it's older. You can get all kinds of characters for her for $3.50, even less.  DAZ sometimes gives away V4 bundles, and often puts their older items on deep discount. 

I still buy a lot of stuff for V4, but I rarely pay more than a few bucks for anything. That's the market these days. Which is probably why the vendors don't make stuff for her any more.

To be honest at this point I'm considering dumping all of these figures for projects and concentrating on props or my own figure creation. Getting exhausted messing with other peoples baked in problems and all the associated rules and hoops.

I think people do still buy V4/M4 characters, but they don't pay a lot. I pay a little more for M4 characters, because they're rarer than V4. But still not much. 

I don't think there's anyone still making stuff for V4 or M4, except as a fit for an item made for another character. You see this a lot with hair or dynamic clothing. It's made for Dawn, LF, PE, but there's a fit for V4 included. 

I thought you were going to make stuff for Dawn 2?

I'll definitely purchase it...

(that ... contains a ton of subtext)

As I'm not a vendor (I really don't have enough free time to do it, and I'm rather convinced that I won't be good at it), I'm still using Sasha-19, the best weightmapped Vic4 I've tested till now.
I still need to practice with dynamic clothes because I often get weird results. That's why I often use 3d-age's clothes because these are the ones that provide the most morphs. That plus Posermatic's NGM, which give the best control to fill correctly cleavages.

Here is an example with which I'm having difficulties:

I wanted to use the middle-length top, and I've tried hard to let it fall around the dress, but it still interacts with it.

From time to time, I'm using LF, but it really lacks of freedom for the shapes (for example the shapes of her breasts don't convince me enough, even under clothes), and when you're used to the numerous morphs of Sasha-19, it take a far longer time to pose LF. Furthermore, I have no freedom with the shapes as I don't model.
It's the same problem with Dawn: not being a modeler equals being prisoner with what you are offered when you buy the character or a new morphology. this is somewhat frustrating, compared to the 3 packs: Morphs++, Badabing and NGM.

My personal humble opinion for what concerns customers like me: LF and Dawn are somewhat the Genesis8.x counterparts: you buy, you pose, you render. With Sasha-19 / Vic4, it's a little more tricky, but I like that.
But this does not prevent me at all from buying products for LF, on the contrary: I want to help its diffusion and to support the vendors. And I'll very probably buy Dawn2 as well, for the same reasons. At the time, I bought Dawn, its special editions, and a few specific morphs.
Not to mention the fact that I have a well-stocked wardrobe of urban and sexy styles, and it will cost a lot of money to buy the same for LF, and Dawn2. 

Speaking of hairs and cloth textures: it's been a rather long time that I don't use the default textures and materials: I'm using from time to time their bitmaps, but with personal settings, especially for the old Vic4-specific hairs, and as an hobbyist, it's really part of the fun with Poser.
And I love the fact that nowadays, we find hairs for all three characters, that's great, too.

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It's the head morphs that I miss with Dawn and LF. They've gotten more (especially Dawn - she had nothing when she was first released). But still hardly anything compared to V4.

I don't really care about boobs. I like to be able to make figures look like real people. Celebrities, politicians, family members. I'm not that great with magnets or modeling; I want dials to spin.

Though I wonder if the reason V4 has so much support is just because she's so old. My employer went through a bad spell where they had no money to upgrade software or hardware. We spent something like 10 years using the same software. And it was great. Well, the slow computers weren't great, but we tweaked the software so it was perfect for us. There are tens of thousands of preferences in our main software package, and we actually had most of them set up.We've never come close to it since.

Anyway, I've tried with La Femme and find it difficult to get a likeness with her. I think she doesn't enough polys in her face or something. I find even V3 and M3 easier to work with. They have a lot of polys in their heads.

randym77 posted at 4:38 PM Thu, 23 December 2021 - #4432344

It's the head morphs that I miss with Dawn and LF. They've gotten more (especially Dawn - she had nothing when she was first released). But still hardly anything compared to V4.

I don't really care about boobs. I like to be able to make figures look like real people. Celebrities, politicians, family members. I'm not that great with magnets or modeling; I want dials to spin.

Though I wonder if the reason V4 has so much support is just because she's so old. My employer went through a bad spell where they had no money to upgrade software or hardware. We spent something like 10 years using the same software. And it was great. Well, the slow computers weren't great, but we tweaked the software so it was perfect for us. There are tens of thousands of preferences in our main software package, and we actually had most of them set up.We've never come close to it since.

Anyway, I've tried with La Femme and find it difficult to get a likeness with her. I think she doesn't enough polys in her face or something. I find even V3 and M3 easier to work with. They have a lot of polys in their heads.

Now that you're speaking of Vic3: I've been astonished by what EZSkin could do with those old characters. Rendered using P11 5 years ago:

And when I say 5 years, the morphology comes from the past, really: mid 2006 😅

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Nice render!

I bought a bunch of characters for V3 and A3 during the Black Friday sale. They're so cheap, and a lot of them still look really good.  I've been using JoePublic's weightmapped V3. Too bad there's no weightmapped A3.

"Too bad there's no weightmapped A3."

There probably is a WM A3... just too much of a PITA to make it shareable.

Could be. RTEncoder is kind of a pain. I've noticed DAZ no longer requires it for older products sold in their store. Like Melody for A3. Probably too much of a pain dealing with RTEncoder tech support. They haven't changed the readmes, though. I guess no one ever reads the documentation. :-D

Doing a quick Google resulted in no hits whatsoever.  ATM, converting Aiko 3 to weight mapping remains a pipe dream, it may never get done.

hborre posted at 1:13 PM Fri, 24 December 2021 - #4432362

Doing a quick Google resulted in no hits whatsoever.  ATM, converting Aiko 3 to weight mapping remains a pipe dream, it may never get done.

I wouldn't venture to guess what some of the silent odd balls who utilize Poser in unconventional or unspeakable :D ways might have lurking in various states of completion or undress in their Runtimes... regardless of what the all seeing eye of Google has to say about it. Have you ever looked at some of the obviously frankensteined A3 version figures tucked away on some obscure Japanese sites? Granted not WM... but I haven't looked at everything everywhere.

The thoughts of those thinking inside the box very rarely effects those who are thinking in some alien blob shape, at least in private art pursuits.

I'm curious what magical combination of difficulty it is exactly that makes WM A3 such a Pipe Dream.

randym77 posted at 12:30 PM Fri, 24 December 2021 - #4432361

Could be. RTEncoder is kind of a pain. I've noticed DAZ no longer requires it for older products sold in their store. Like Melody for A3. Probably too much of a pain dealing with RTEncoder tech support. They haven't changed the readmes, though. I guess no one ever reads the documentation. :-D

I've noticed a more relaxed attitude regarding Daz Gen 3 figure derivatives, yes. Mostly I see it in clones or obvious appropriation of parts in freebies that is happening in plain sight. Not the sort of clumsy, blunt sleight of hand thing I would care to tempt the legal consequences of. I've actually noticed a general sort of attitude of denial or solipsism in the Poserverse. It's like a bunch of ship wreck survivors clinging to driftwood with fins circling in the night... "hey, wasn't Mac there last night?" "Shut up, I don't know no Mac" :D

Well, not that bad but I have noticed some weird things... or maybe it was always there.

"I'm curious what magical combination of difficulty it is exactly that makes WM A3 such a Pipe Dream."

Let's consider that other Poser users were very keen to convert Sydney to weight mapping and gave up very soon afterward when it was discovered that her particular mesh was asymmetrical and a mess to correct.  I'm not saying that Aiko 3 falls under the same category, but someone would need to invest quite a bit of time with her in order to iron out any issues that may exist.  The Frankensteining technique always fascinated me; actually, a very long time ago someone posted a tutorial on the process, something I didn't pursue at the time.  I was quite impressed.

I recall Shvrdavid (spelling?) doing quite a lot with Sydney. I also recall the asymmetry problem. And not just with a particular figure but with Poser in general. I'm not certain of any glaring specific issues with A3, it's been a while since I looked. I have a ton of A3 content though, probably more than most of the other Poser figures I have. Some of her classic clothing items are just gorgeously modeled. From a personal perspective I always found her face TOO high poly to morph comfortably, which sounds like a strange statement but there's specific reasons.

There is something to be said about the Generation 3's, whenever you go back to them it's like a brand new experience and appreciation to how well they have stood up over time.  I might see myself during more with A3 this coming year and probably throw in Hiro 3 as well, he is a very underappreciated and forgotten figure.

A3 is definitely a grassroots beloved Poser figure :)

primorge posted at 7:58 PM Fri, 24 December 2021 - #4432377

A3 is definitely a grassroots beloved Poser figure :)

Hearing you both speaking of A3 characters all of a sudden made my most beloved A3 character woke up

Be careful: I wouldn't want to see her go mad... 😂

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I indeed started to weight map Sydney. I quickly discovered that Sydney's mesh is in no way symmetrical. I don't remember who actually owns the Sydney mesh anymore, but correcting it was not a legal option. We even considered doing a script that corrected the mesh since that would in no way have any of Sydney's info in it, and that was not an allowable option either. The mesh is horribly asymmetrical, not just a little bit either. That was done on purpose, from what I was told. The asymmetry was only one of many reasons the majority of the old figures never got weight mapped versions released.

Sydney is also a geometry swapping character (hip), which is not supported with Poser weight mapping. Most of the older characters that I weight mapped were never released for similar reasons. Lack of support for geometry swapping and asymmetry issues that wreck havoc with weight mapping. Then there is the permission issue, to modify existing geometry. 

Here is the fully corrected Sydney, mostly quads, no geometry swapping, aptly named, Sydney 3: Never released, never will be. The body is completely new, head hands and feet are corrected from Sydney. I don't remember how many different UV sets there were off the top of my head. There were more than a few options, obviously including Sydney's original UV's.

On top of completely redoing more than a few characters wireframes.... A small group of us spent months weight mapping everything that came with Poser, (animals, people, etc, all of them...) just to be shut down, blocked, whatever you want to call it. Simply because it was old content and never going to be supported weight map wise due to issues mentioned earlier. And if you can't get permission to release derivatives, well, you can use them for personal use....

I still Beta test Poser, but do very little in the way of content for it. Maybe when I retire.... I mostly just read the forums now, lurking.... 

Happy Holidays, Poser'ing, etc, everyone.

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Thanks for the background info shvrdavid. Hopefully you return in more than a lurking capacity eventually; your experience and tech knowledge of Poser is surely a valuable resource.

Happy Holidays.

Why would they intentionally make meshes asymmetrical? Is it a DRM thing?

randym77 posted at 10:37 AM Sat, 25 December 2021 - #4432405

Why would they intentionally make meshes asymmetrical? Is it a DRM thing?

I have no clue why they would have taken the extra time to do so. The asymmetry is obviously blatantly intentional in some areas, and just sloppiness in others. There are huge differences ranging from the obvious differences and duplicates on Sydney's chest, to areas that are just lines of loose vertex's. I have come to the conclusion that they made the included figures crappy so there would be no need to ever support them, which is exactly what occurred with the vast majority of them. Others have come to the conclusion that they got what they paid for and hired people to make the figures that either did not have a clue how to mirror model a figure, or were so pressed for time that errors were never corrected.

Time will tell what happens now Poser wise. Bondware is off to a great start and have the people to make it very successful. I have used Poser for years and want to see it continue to advance and succeed. I have been active in the beta program since P8, so it is safe to say I am going to be using it for a long time to come.

Anyway, back to the topic of V4/M4 products.... Carry on... Cheers...

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randym77 posted at 12:30 PM Fri, 24 December 2021 - #4432361

Could be. RTEncoder is kind of a pain. I've noticed DAZ no longer requires it for older products sold in their store. Like Melody for A3. Probably too much of a pain dealing with RTEncoder tech support. They haven't changed the readmes, though. I guess no one ever reads the documentation. :-D

DAZ changed their EULA several years ago; basically one can distribute derived works so long as it requires the original purchased work to function.   Otherwise, it is the exception when their documentation is useful. 

This is a render I did many years ago of a  beta of shvrdavid's weightmapped Sydney, asymmetry and all.  It was a nice figure with a few quirks, but because of the asymmetrical geometry (not asymmetric in shape, which could be dealt with,  but the number of polys varied from one side to the other!!), fixing those quirks would drive one to drink, because one could not mirror the weightmaps, but had to do each side separately.  To this day I still don't understand why SM wouldn't allow distribution of the modified figures and Syd 3...

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I don't think Melody requires A3 to function any more, even though it's just A3's body with a new head.

It used to require RTEncoder. It no longer does, but they didn't change the readme.

Picture me firing up RTEncoder, trying to remember how it works, and scouring my runtime for the .rte file.

There wasn't one. Though the documentation says you need RTEncoder, and includes instructions on how to use it, you just install it like you would any other figure. It's not encoded at all.

WandW posted at 6:43 PM Sun, 26 December 2021 - #4432450

randym77 posted at 12:30 PM Fri, 24 December 2021 - #4432361

Could be. RTEncoder is kind of a pain. I've noticed DAZ no longer requires it for older products sold in their store. Like Melody for A3. Probably too much of a pain dealing with RTEncoder tech support. They haven't changed the readmes, though. I guess no one ever reads the documentation. :-D

DAZ changed their EULA several years ago; basically one can distribute derived works so long as it requires the original purchased work to function.   Otherwise, it is the exception when their documentation is useful. 

This is a render I did many years ago of a  beta of shvrdavid's weightmapped Sydney, asymmetry and all.  It was a nice figure with a few quirks, but because of the asymmetrical geometry (not asymmetric in shape, which could be dealt with,  but the number of polys varied from one side to the other!!), fixing those quirks would drive one to drink, because one could not mirror the weightmaps, but had to do each side separately.  To this day I still don't understand why SM wouldn't allow distribution of the modified figures and Syd 3...

Woah... she's really cute 😍

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adp001 posted at 4:48 PM Thu, 29 July 2021 - #4424183

From sasha-16 manual:

12.3. Where can I get an update?

 A valid question, but difficult to answer.

Due to my personal financial situation and the exchange rate of the UAH vs. US$ I can't afford to rent web space for hosting.

Until then we must rely on the current publishing scheme (whatever it will be in the end).

If that's not an option for you then send me a mail to "karina.kiev@ymail.com" and we can discuss alternatives.

I am sorry for these inconveniences, but I didn't find alternative ways to publish SASHA yet. I hope that will change as soon as SASHA becomes more popular (if ever).

Well, the good news is that due to recent events, PayPal has changed their policy, and now allows payments to Ukraine.

The bad news is the recent events. I hope Karina is okay.

randym77 posted at 7:43 AM Sat, 19 March 2022 - #4436127

adp001 posted at 4:48 PM Thu, 29 July 2021 - #4424183

From sasha-16 manual:

12.3. Where can I get an update?

 A valid question, but difficult to answer.

Due to my personal financial situation and the exchange rate of the UAH vs. US$ I can't afford to rent web space for hosting.

Until then we must rely on the current publishing scheme (whatever it will be in the end).

If that's not an option for you then send me a mail to "karina.kiev@ymail.com" and we can discuss alternatives.

I am sorry for these inconveniences, but I didn't find alternative ways to publish SASHA yet. I hope that will change as soon as SASHA becomes more popular (if ever).

Well, the good news is that due to recent events, PayPal has changed their policy, and now allows payments to Ukraine.

The bad news is the recent events. I hope Karina is okay.

Was thinking the same thing lately, not much speculation required to see the dire situation. Site is still up...

randym77 posted at 7:43 AM Sat, 19 March 2022 - #4436127

Well, the good news is that due to recent events, PayPal has changed their policy, and now allows payments to Ukraine.

The bad news is the recent events. I hope Karina is okay.

Indeed.  I haven't corresponded with "Karina" in about 5 years, but he was in the Army reserves....

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I am, too, worrying for Karina. It's been such a long time without any news. I'm even ready to help him to setup a new website.

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"ATM, converting Aiko 3 to weight mapping remains a pipe dream, it may never get done."

*

*

if someone would be willing to help me packing her up for redistribution, I wouldn't mind sharing her.

Thighs, shoulders and knees: Left WM, right original sphere rigging

Buttock comparison: Left original, right WM. Thighs only posing.

Splitting BEND across thighs and buttocks helps the original rig, but the WM is still better. (Thigh pose only)

Pink WM, blue original rig. Ellbows, thighs, knees, feet.

Knee and foot comparison

Buttock comparison

Chest and abdomen comparison.

This is only a partial weightmap, btw. Several bodyparts like hands and fingers are perfectly fine "as is", so no need to waste resorces by adding weightmaps.

"Twist" also doesn't really benefit from weightmapping, so I left it alone.

All original JCM's have been deleted.

Adding a few for "squishy" flesh deformation wouldn't hurt though, but it would make cloth conversion/modification harder.

Maybe later I add a few.

Besides, as are all my other weightmaps, these are "Open Source". As long as you respect DAZ original copyright, feel free to improve and modify my work and redistribute them.

*

But as I said, I'd really appreciate some help in the original packaging, hosting and redistribution.

Put it on a google drive and link it.

I'm interested in looking at it, I have a lot of thoughts about what I'm seeing, none of which I will say on the forum. Personally I dislike A3's mesh, not because of the topology so much, or the tris (a non issue), mostly because I think it's too high poly in nonsensical ways... but that doesn't mean I dislike the A3 figure. The contrary. I'd like to look at what you've done and maybe add my own spin on things... Eventually. At the moment I'm neck deep in unfinshed or about to be finished Poser stuff, some of which has been excruciatingly boring to finish thus procrastinating over the past month or so and nibbling away at it... In particular the packaging and complex documentation. Plus life and Other Software interests. I get you on the packaging tip. Poser starts to feel less of a hobby and a bit like a second job when you are deep into the custom stuff.

PM me if you want to share the cr2. Otherwise I'll take a look when you find a home for it...

Well done on undertaking the challenge Roy

Take care.

Sent you a PM.

Yeah, the 3rd Gen Meshes are high res, but they were created in a time when there was no subdivision in neither Poser nor Studio.

So especially the head is pretty polygon heavy. (So my "personal" go-to mesh is a high-res body / lo-res head V3 hybrid)

But I am still convinced that at least in Poser a fairly high res mesh with "built-in" geometry detail is less resource heavy than a low-res mesh that needs subdivision/displacement maps to achieve the same level of detail.

In that regard, Michael 2 / Steph 1 still reign supreme:

Look at all that detail you get from just 34.700 polygons:

Compared to that, M3 and all the other 3rd Gen meshes are a bit "bloated", but they have much better support overall. And as I said, my hybrid mesh nicely compensates for the polygon bloat.

Still, weightmapping M2 would probably not be a complete waste of time.

:-)

👌

BTW: An easy way to put Aiko on a "Polygon-Diet" would be to use 3D Universes Toon Aiko instead:

The lower res toon head brings her down to 44966 polys as opposed to Aiko's original 75230!

(I probably could save another 10K or so by swapping the body with the V3 LoRes mesh, but then I'd have to convert the body textures.)

Anyway, original Aiko is rigged a lot better than V3 or even Steph Petite, so weightmapping will give no drastic improvement in everyday poses.

But when it comes to "action" poses, the weightmapping really starts to shine:

:-)

You Talkin' To Me?

😂 Tough crowd 

I'm pretty late to this thread but wanted to chime in on a few things. I mostly post to the gallery, but occasionally I like to see what's up in the forums, so yes, a few folks do both :-)

Like Y-Phil, my favorite version of V4 is the Sasha-16 by Karina, and I use the update released in 2019, which I beta-tested for Karina. Her weight mapping produces bends that aren't quite as nice as those from Nerd3D's weight map (no longer available?), but given all the OTHER nifty features that Karina packed into the S-16 CR2, I'm fine with that, esp. since I don't do nudes. When I want to do a one-time render with a female character, I often use the "regular" V4 (sometimes with the Perfect Arms add-ons). But when I was setting up a bunch of female characters for a graphic novel, the S-16 version was a no-brainer, given how much more functionality she has, like the eye-beams and all the easy-posing dials. (I even borrowed the eye-beams idea and made them for all the other figures I use!) Making clothes work with the modified rig is pretty easy in most cases. And Karina's HTML manual for her has stuff in it that every Poser user could benefit from reading, esp. about posing, all very clearly written.

As for the original question: because I use V4, M4, and K4 when I want "realistic" humans, I do still buy content for them, but only on sale. Mostly I buy clothes or hair (which I, like others, treat as universal, since it's fairly easy to fit hair to any figure, esp. 3Dream's hair!), but I might buy a character if it's by one of the vendors whose work I love AND if it's got some interesting options for creating fantasy characters. (I have no interest in photorealism.) I'm not sure I'd take the chance on a character from a new vendor. I also don't really care about the shaping morphs from a character package as much as I do the textures. I already have a thousand ways to shape V4 however I want!

The figures I would LOVE to have more content for are the ones by Nursoda. I have nearly all of them and they are always a joy to work with. They don't always bend that well, and they don't have a thousand shaping dials, but they're so charming and full of personality that it doesn't seem to matter! I did take a stab at weight-mapping some of Vila's joints, but I'm not sure it was worth the bother, other than as a learning experience :-) I've made new skin textures for many of Nursoda's figures, and that makes them a lot more versatile. But I'm no good at sculpting, so having some more shaping and expression morphs for them would be handy. What I would most like, though, is more clothing. I've made a few very simple things for them in Cheetah3D, but my modeling skills are better suited to props than clothing. I've managed to convert a few items for V4 and other figures for use on Nursoda's figures, but often the style isn't quite right. I guess what I really want is for Nursoda to make more clothing for his own figures, since I love his style, or for someone else to take up that same style. PixPax has done a nice job of that with outfits for Fehn. But I can't imagine that's a big market.

Those weight-mapped versions of A3 are pretty impressive! Definitely makes her better suited for action scenes! As for the high poly count, I did a bunch of experiments a while back to figure out what caused Poser to slow down on my Mac, and I discovered that poly count has nothing to do with it (not in preview or in render). The number one culprit was: the number of conforming items in the scene. The more conformers, the slower everything gets. I've already tweaked all the settings I could to speed up preview performance, but that's one I can't do anything about, alas. I can load prop sets with millions of polygons and have no trouble, but load three V4's wearing outfits that come in lots of conforming parts, and everything crawls! Oh well, some of those outfits are worth it :-)

So that's my 42 cents! Thank you to the three people who read this far :-)

---

TOOLS: MacBook Pro; Poser Pro 11; Cheetah3D; Photoshop CC

FIGURES: S-16 (improved V4 by Karina), M4, K4, Mavka, Toons, and Nursoda's people

GOALS: Stylized and non-photorealistic renders in various fantasy styles

All those words, and I forgot to say the one thing that originally prompted me to contribute to this thread! 

Yes, I a good part of the reason I use V4 is b/c I have so much content for her. But an even bigger reason that I don't often see mentioned is that I KNOW her so well.  I've used the figure long enough to be very familiar with her material zones, her body shaping options, and her expressions, and even so I still discover new ways to make things happen. I know which FBMs will work with certain types of clothes and which will not, and how to fix various issues. That familiarity saves time, given that my goal is to make art, not to futz about with figuring out how a new figure works.

I LOVE the way Karina has organized all V4's dials to make sense, esp. separating face shapes from expressions. I think Dawn is a pretty nifty figure, and I have a fair amount of content for her,  but her dial organization makes no sense, so I reorganized them myself and saved that CR2 as a "starter."  I actually did that for M4 and for all of Nursoda's figures too, so that I can focus on making expressions and not on hunting down dials!

---

TOOLS: MacBook Pro; Poser Pro 11; Cheetah3D; Photoshop CC

FIGURES: S-16 (improved V4 by Karina), M4, K4, Mavka, Toons, and Nursoda's people

GOALS: Stylized and non-photorealistic renders in various fantasy styles

Weight mapped A3 count me in please.

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Unfortunately Hiro and Aiko 3 have slightly different proportions, so to properly weightmap Hiro, I'd normally have to start from scratch.

But thankfully Poser 11 has that neat "Match Centers to Morphs" functionality.

So I exported a zeroed Hiro as an object file.

Then loaded that "Hiro-Shape" object as a full body morph to my weightmapped Aiko 3. (They are the same mesh)

And hit "Match Centers to Morph".

If you DE-SELECT "create dependencies" while doing so, the new rigging becomes the default to create a stand-alone figure.

(If you don't, you create a "mini-Genesis" figure that can swap between both bodyshapes, while the rigging automatically goes along with that)

*

In any case the result is a weightmapped Hiro 3:

I might edit the weightmaps a little here or there to fit the Hiro shape even better. (Weightmaps are lot more "moody" than the old sphere zones)

I haven't checked if this automated process creates different joint centers than the original Hiro rig has.

This would of course mess with Hiro 3's legacy clothing.

But again, Poser has a solution.

One can "copy joint zones" from weightmapped Hiro to the non-weightmapped clothing.

A bit of weightmap smoothing might be necessary, though.

There are some examples shown in my old Weightmapped David 3 thread:

https://www.renderosity.com/forums/threads/2864254

Or maybe I remember how to create a "joint pose" .cr2 to copy the original joint centers back in, while keeping the weightmaps.

Provided I can find my ancient cr2 editor thingy somewhere in my archives. Lol.

Hmm, I already weightmapped Matt & Maddie from scratch.

I think only Luke, Laura and the Freak are left now, and then I'm through with all the 3rd Gen figures.

Then maybe I see how well this works with custom morphs.

;-)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.posersoftware.com/amp/article/551/weight-map-injection

Thanks for the help, but I've never used PMDs 'cause I don't trust those external binary morph stuff.

(Tried it out once, promptly lost some work, never switched it on again)

But I already solved the problem the old school way, by making a joint center injection pose with my trusted cr2 editor:

(For those interrested: Just delete the first block of the figure's cr2 file and save as a pose file. The second block will overwrite the joint centers data, but will leave the weightmaps in place)

Left the weightmapped H3 with the original H3 joint centers injected back, right the weightmapped H3 as derived from my weightmapped Aiko 3.

Clothes are standard non-weightmapped Hiro 3 clothing straight out of the box.

The weightmapping causes a bit of cloth pokethrough in extreme poses, but that is to be expected and could be easily fixed.

I'll refine the weightmap a bit and transfer it then over to the original Hiro 3 geometry file. (I suspect H3 and A3 have slightly different mapping)

Then I'll see how well this works with one of my custom sculpts.  :-)

JoePublic posted at 9:11 AM Sun, 27 March 2022 - #4436444

Thanks for the help, but I've never used PMDs 'cause I don't trust those external binary morph stuff.

(Tried it out once, promptly lost some work, never switched it on again)

But I already solved the problem the old school way, by making a joint center injection pose with my trusted cr2 editor:

(For those interrested: Just delete the first block of the figure's cr2 file and save as a pose file. The second block will overwrite the joint centers data, but will leave the weightmaps in place)

Left the weightmapped H3 with the original H3 joint centers injected back, right the weightmapped H3 as derived from my weightmapped Aiko 3.

Clothes are standard non-weightmapped Hiro 3 clothing straight out of the box.

The weightmapping causes a bit of cloth pokethrough in extreme poses, but that is to be expected and could be easily fixed.

I'll refine the weightmap a bit and transfer it then over to the original Hiro 3 geometry file. (I suspect H3 and A3 have slightly different mapping)

Then I'll see how well this works with one of my custom sculpts.  :-)

I've used pmd literally thousands of times and haven't encountered any problems. Things have changed since Poser 6 and 7. It would also make redistribution of your weight mapped cr2s alot easier if you can reinject the base morphs embedded in the standard cr2 with a few clicks and menu choices into the weight mapped version rather than hanging in limbo while someone "figures out the packaging for you" or redistributing proprietary morphs... By accident ;)

Just sayin'

BTW

Pmd injection files can be created without having external binary on in preferences, in case you weren't aware. File Export Morph Injection, regardless of that being on or not. External Binary on pertains mostly to scene pmd file generation, not pose file generation.

Sorry @primorge: the last time I tried a PMD file, I lost the full scene, and it was last year, which means Poser12. It's totally random, and impossible to systematically cause the error 

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Y-Phil posted at 10:44 AM Sun, 27 March 2022 - #4436449

Sorry @primorge: the last time I tried a PMD file, I lost the full scene, and it was last year, which means Poser12. It's totally random, and impossible to systematically cause the error 

Apology not required....

Well if thats the case you better throw out ALL of the morph packages that you bought for La Femme or L'Homme. Including the figures themselves, ALL pmd.

Nowhere did I mention using external binary on in scene file prefs as a recommendation. The discussion, and all of my posts following the info about WM injection are about pmd INJ, a different thing... The difference between a scene file and an injection pose.

read this again...

BTW

Pmd injection files can be created without having external binary on in preferences, in case you weren't aware. File Export Morph Injection, regardless of that being on or not. External Binary on pertains mostly to scene pmd file generation, not pose file generation.

primorge posted at 11:53 AM Sun, 27 March 2022 - #4436453

Thank you for your patient explanation, I had indeed not seen the difference.

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Just as a particular topic aside, I personally don't use external binary for scene file saving. Not because I'm worried about scene corruption, but rather I like the morphs embedded and not having that extra pmd file to go with the Pz3. External binary is supposed to make loading faster and cut down on scene overhead, generally I'm not concerned about that. I will say that if you're saving a scene with a fully loaded v4 with all her Daz format readscript morphs and a bunch of clothing and hair and props that's a shit ton of weird format data etc to write to a pmd. I'm not surprised if a thing or 2 might go wrong with writing all that to pmd occasionally. As far as pmd morph INJ I haven't encountered any problems beyond user error internal naming mistakes or the known bugs or shortcomings that have been documented about manually adjusted animated joint centers etc.

primorge posted at 1:33 PM Sun, 27 March 2022 - #4436455

Just as a particular topic aside, I personally don't use external binary for scene file saving. Not because I'm worried about scene corruption, but rather I like the morphs embedded and not having that extra pmd file to go with the Pz3. External binary is supposed to make loading faster and cut down on scene overhead, generally I'm not concerned about that. I will say that if you're saving a scene with a fully loaded v4 with all her Daz format readscript morphs and a bunch of clothing and hair and props that's a shit ton of weird format data etc to write to a pmd. I'm not surprised if a thing or 2 might go wrong with writing all that to pmd occasionally. As far as pmd morph INJ I haven't encountered any problems beyond user error internal naming mistakes or the known bugs or shortcomings that have been documented about manually adjusted animated joint centers etc.

Once again: thanks for the clarification, it's clearer now

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👿 Nas 10TB
👿 Poser 13 and soon 14 ❤️

Well, I am worried about corruption. It's happened to me more than once, even with the latest version of Poser 11. (I don't user Poser 12 that much yet.) Seems to be more common with larger scenes. The last time, it was a scene with 10 figures, all dressed, posed, with hair, etc.

But I've never had trouble using PMD files, even though I have Use external binary unchecked. You don't even notice.

randym77 posted at 3:21 PM Sun, 27 March 2022 - #4436462

Well, I am worried about corruption. It's happened to me more than once, even with the latest version of Poser 11. (I don't user Poser 12 that much yet.) Seems to be more common with larger scenes. The last time, it was a scene with 10 figures, all dressed, posed, with hair, etc.

But I've never had trouble using PMD files, even though I have Use external binary unchecked. You don't even notice.

I stopped using external pmd for scene saving a few months ago. I have a tendency to save my wip files to the desktop and having the extra file and reference became an annoyance when something needed to be moved to a dedicated folder or Runtime.

As far as pmd INJ files go, I always save them to a predestined Pose library folder when the pz2 is written. The pz2 contains the settings, parm groups, names etc... and a file path ref to the pmd. The pmd contains names, Morph ID, and the deltas themselves (those looooong lists of numbers). The resulting pz2 needs some file path tidying, as its written the pz2 has absolute paths for location of the pmd. I run my INJ pz2s through Netherwork's Creators Toybox scripts: Simplify Paths. Using a script isn't necessary for this though, the change is dead easy in a text editor.

I always keep the pmd with its relative pz2. If I need to look deeper into the PMD file itself (which are encrypted and or compressed and can't be deciphered via a regular text editor) I use D3d's Binary Morph Editor which can read and display the contents plus a bunch of other useful things...

Anyway, I must be on the fortunate fringe to never have encountered scene corruption while I was using External Binary...

undefined posted at 2:08 PM Mon, 19 July 2021 - #2963675

I'm curious if people still buy character/texture sets for V4/M4, maybe asking forum regulars isn't the right demographic to ask this question of. I imagine there are a lot of lurkers who do not post. Also, are there many vendors making stuff, again character sets, specifically for those figures? I know people still probably buy clothing items and such for those figures, I do, but maybe the character set market has dried up? Just curious.

Just have a look at the Marketplace and count.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be snarky or something.

But 99% of the characters offered even here are G8.

Rendo tries to promote some La Femme / L'Homme stuff, and probably will do the same with "Dawn-2", but we all know it will end in tears.

Just as it did with any other non-DAZ figure in the past.

V4 is way over her prime. Some diehards are desperately clinging to her, because she's still better than the few alternatives that are left for Poser.

But even here the Marketplace is absolutely dominated by G8.

If you need to make enough money to pay the rent and to put food on the table, and you think you can compete with all the talent that G8 has aggregated since her creation, walk away from Poser.

Even the simplest G8 Bikini will probably outsell an elaborate V4 character by a factor of 100.

I like playing around with the V4/M4 LOD meshes, but technically, V4 was a step back from V3 because DAZ tried to peddle her to professional studios.

The only reason she survived that long is because she's the last (somewhat) Poser compatible DAZ figure.

You might get a sale or maybe 10 or 20, but nowhere what you could get from a G8 product.

I (still) love Poser and try to use it as long as I can, but I do this just for fun.

If I had to rely on this hobby as a means of income, I'd have left long ago.

>>> The only reason she survived that long is because she's the last (somewhat) Poser compatible DAZ figure.